League for the Firth International?

  1. TheGodlessUtopian
    TheGodlessUtopian
    I'm pretty new to all of these organizations,but know that there have been multiplie internationals.Currently we have the fourth....why does a fifth one need to be set up? What changes are they proposing exactly?
  2. redphilly
    redphilly
    I can't speak for the LFI. IMO, the Fourht International (USFI) which Socialist Action is affiliated to, has flaws. That said, there are some great comrades in the FI. There are other trotskyist currents that are doing really good work and engaged in the class struggle. (The point being to avoid sterile progandism)

    Eventually we need to refound or reconstitute the Fourth International. $.02
  3. Lolshevik
    Lolshevik
    I agree with some of the L5I's criticisms of the Fourth International. I feel some are off base, but that's beside the point.

    The point is, the Fourth International is very open with admitting new currents, new sections. If they have these criticisms they should join the Fourth International and work to change it.
  4. Rosa Lichtenstein
    Rosa Lichtenstein
    So, when can we expect the 6th...?
  5. Q
    Q
    John Sullivan wrote this about them back in the 1980's:

    For some years, Workers Power held on to their parent group’s fetish of state capitalism, while alleging that the SWP were not applying their own theory. When Russian troops entered Afghanistan, Workers Power stood out from most of the left by refusing to call for their withdrawal: the group had stumbled into a Trotskyist position which it later ratified by dropping the state capitalist fetish. Having done so, it logically had to consider whether to put in a bid for the Fourth International franchise, which would inevitably meant it being told to unite with the political illiterates of the IMG. Recoiling from this fate, Worker Power had no choice but to justify its decision by producing a criticism of the Fourth International by means of a critical history. Surprisingly, the work entitled The Death Agony of the Fourth International, published in 1983, was an excellent, well-researched booklet, demolishing many of the myths about that venerable body through a very accurate account of its tragi-comic history. Like a previously dull child who has unexpectedly passed an exam, Workers Power grew in confidence and went on to produce a very decent theoretical journal titled Permanent Revolution. The group believed that it had sorted out the problems caused by its late development and curious ancestry, and was poised to begin the task of building the genuine revolutionary party. Alas! It was not to be. Workers Power remains a group of 1970s students becoming polytechnic lecturers. Its monthly paper of the same name, filled with really appalling gibberish, is after the Militant the most unreadable of all the left periodicals, light years away from its theoretical journal. Workers Power has an Irish sister organisation, the Irish Workers Group, which has tentatively begun to apply Marxist theory to Ireland. This will end in tears: a Marxist analysis of Ireland will shatter the romantic green nationalism which the English left depends on.
  6. Crux
    Crux
    I agree with some of the L5I's criticisms of the Fourth International. I feel some are off base, but that's beside the point.

    The point is, the Fourth International is very open with admitting new currents, new sections. If they have these criticisms they should join the Fourth International and work to change it.
    Very open indeed. Not without making you wonder how effective being an opposition in that particualr body would be, given it's seemingly very lose structures.

    As for the L5I, well my experience with them here in sweden is simply this, they're usually quite alright as activists (even though it has be said they have maybe at most 40 members nationally), but more often than not fall to trying to win arguments by verbosity when debating other left groups.
  7. Boris Krinkle
    Boris Krinkle
    I hear Chavez is going to take part in constructing the fifth international, but that stalinists like the Communist Party of Cuba and reactionaries like the Iranians will be accepted into it. of course that would necessitate a 6th international.
  8. Q
    Q
    I hear Chavez is going to take part in constructing the fifth international, but that stalinists like the Communist Party of Cuba and reactionaries like the Iranians will be accepted into it. of course that would necessitate a 6th international.
    That initiative died a year ago and I see no indications that Chavez wants to revive it.