September 11 Attacks

[Dreadnaht1]

Capitalist: "They also exterminated millions of Indians & enslaved Africans."

Native Americans, you fucking ignorant asshole. Aren't you indowed to them already just by supporting the people who caused their genocide and now your stupid enough to call them 'Indians' you stupid fuck. You're just as stupid as the asshole who founded this nation, Columbus. And if I had one bullet and I could shoot anyone in history then most likely that bullet would have contact with his head very quickly. Columbus is a fucking moron, this nation is founded on death, Bush is a fucking moron, ok almost all presidents are fucking morons, and you sir, Capitalist, are a fucking moron.

Che Guevara obviously opposed any type of terrorism. He stated so several times over 20 years ago. Even if it would have happened to his arch enemy he would've opposed it. He also would've opposed the U$A's response to these attacks, as any moral person should.

We've gone over this before, Che opposes terrorism of all forms.

-Dread

[Son of Scargill]

[quote]Quote: from celticsocialist on 9:44 pm on Jan. 17, 2002
Scargill, I think you have been watching too much Home and Away mate

I hope you're not referring to Hull's dismal performance of late,it's awful.Go on,give us Larssen on a loan for the rest of the season.You don't need him anyway.

[Discipulo]

Quote: from El Che on 9:21 am on Jan. 14, 2002

This is why i think its a waste of time to reply to this guy [capitalist], or even to let him continue to stay here. He doesnt even read our replys to his own admission. All he wants to do is continue to post ignorance and repetition of propaganda so he can state his own misguided beliefs. He understands not what we say, and he cares not what we say. To him we are people infected with some kind of mental illness and so what ever we say is to be disregraded as commie propaganda and evil rethoric. He will not listen to logic, nore to arguments and niether to facts.

For the sake our peace of mind and our right to have a private community of friends i ask all of you to PLEASE stand with me and say YES to banning him. thanks.

Nobody should be banned from this discussion group unless they are getting in the way of meaningful discussion. That does not include disagreeing with people. If you don't want to open yourself up to disagreement and dissent, then why are you in a discussion at all? I haven't agreed with a single thing Capitalist has said, yet I consider him an asset to this community because he prompts us to think about our points of view and gives us insight into what the other side is thinking. Capitalists are not the only ones suseptable to propaganda! We should be able to back things up with fresh reasoning instead of just repeating the same old lines about capitalist exploitation.

That being said, I'd like to return to the topic at hand and say that maybe Che would have supported the Arabs against US imperialism, but he would not have agreed with their methods. If you look at his wartime tactics you'll see that he never attacked a civilian, denied a prisoner medical treatment, or killed soldiers that surrendered. Killing civilians including women and children as in the attacks would probably have disgusted him. Plus he may not even have supported these Arab terrorist group. Che supported Nasser because he was trying to secularize and modernize the Arab world, but these guys are moving away from that with their fundamentalism. I know I don't want to live in a world where women can't go to school and have no other option but to cover their entire bodies. Che would probably have agreed with me on that one.

[commie]

fuck you you cappie all you do is joun i'm sick and tierd of your complaining with god bless amirica but were was he in nam or more inportant on 11 september you stupid little brad spending your money on rocked sheilds and all of that grap but why didn't buch made a plain shield cuz it was the cia attempsion to distroy the twin towers i feel sorry for the people that died on that day all because of your stupid gouverment.


fuck america and fuck democratie.






commie has spoken......

[MJM]

Cummunism is democratic commie.
So I'd disagree with the fuck democracy statement as I don't believe any capitalist country can have true democracy.

[Takeda]

Che was unique ! He DID hated americans, BUT that is why he never would want to be similar to them. Just like the americans are bombing civilians around the world, so did the terrorists in NY and Washington. He would condemn the attacks. Furthermore, the Cuba is fighting against it`s own terrorists ( anti - Castro bastards ). Che was not a murderer, he was a revolutionary !!!!!
And when he speaks about fighting USA, he is speaking 99% about military and economic fighting. Not killing 3000 civilians !!!
Let me backup that with few of Che quotes:

MESSAGE TO THE TRICONTINENTAL :

" It is absolutely just to avoid all useless sacrifices. Therefore, it is so important to clear up the real possibilities that dependent America may have of liberating itself through pacific means. "

ON GROWTH AND IMPERIALISM:

" ...we have said that we would sit down on an equal footing to discuss our problems with the United States, and I wish to take advantage of this opportunity, Mr. Chairman, to affirm once more on behalf of my government that Cuba is willing to sit down to discuss on equal footing anything that the delegation of the United States may wish to discuss..." "Naturally, we are not going to use that four-engine plane, for it is not ours. We respect private property "...

How different from the thinking of nutcases who crashed with AMERICAN PROPERTY into AMERICAN soveriegn territory !!!

[The Rapparee]

He would be laughing in his grave. I loved evry minute of it especially the pentagon bu actually killing innocent civilians in the trade centre I was not so sure about. Killin people in the pentagon right on.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from The Rapparee on 11:19 am on Jan. 22, 2002
I loved evry minute of it

What the hell is wrong with you?

Even if you saw the destruction of the World Trade Center and Pentagon as blows to the capitalist/imperialist system, you'd be a huge idiot if you didn't realize that Al Qaeda is not quite a communist organization. Bin Laden is the son of a wealthy oil man and his followers believe that women should be oppressed and that Islam is the one true religion, etc.

And in case you haven't noticed, in the aftermath of the attacks capitalism and imperialism have been strengthened. Now the US has a better excuse than ever for keeping military bases in the Middle East and Cuba and it's actually using them. All of a sudden, everyone's feeling bad for Bush. How is his 90% approval rating going to help any progressive cause? I could go on and on, but I'm pretty sure that you already know everything that I've been telling you.

And what about the small children are orphans after their innocent parents were killed in the attacks on Afghanistan? Che had five kids. I don't think he'd be happy with the aftermath at all. Of course, some kids died themselves. Bombs, malnutrition and starvation have done major damage. If Che lived in Afghanistan, he'd probably be involved in anti-Taliban groups of fighters. Do you think he'd be laughing if Hildita died?

Whether or not the 9/11 attacks were a loss for the United States or will turn out to be in the long run, they were also a loss for those progressives who believe that everyone deserves equal rights and respect and that human life matters (and that humans have the power to turn themselves into better people). WE may turn out to be the ultimate losers. Che would be crying.

[Moskitto]

Columbus probably didn't discover America, some historians reckon that he went south because he knew America was there but didn't know how big it was and was looking for a way round. America was named after someone called John Amric not Amerigo Vespuci.

[Dreadnaht1]

Actually, I did find a great deal of satisfaction out of the Pentagon destruction minus the people on the plane. I mean just use fucking cruise missiles next time instead of 747's. They only cost...what? Twenty-thousand per warhead? I think Mr. Laden could've afforded it without causing harm to his 401K plan. Better yet, I think U$A could've afforded it since THEY ARE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE HERE. We're probobly loaded with enough nukes to light up the entire middle east for about 20 years. So we could spare one or two.

I WILL DENY: Bin Laden is the son of a wealthy oil man and his followers believe that women should be oppressed and that Islam is the one true religion, etc."

Yeah, he might not have had anything to do with 9/11/01 but he's still a big old fuck head. I also want to add to this that Bin Laden shares stock in the same company that GW Bush Snr. does. Hmmm? It's a small world....

I WILL DENY: "And in case you haven't noticed, in the aftermath of the attacks capitalism and imperialism have been strengthened. Now the US has a better excuse than ever for keeping military bases in the Middle East and Cuba and it's actually using them. All of a sudden, everyone's feeling bad for Bush. How is his 90% approval rating going to help any progressive cause? I could go on and on, but I'm pretty sure that you already know everything that I've been telling you."

Oh yeah. The commies in New York feel the pain.

I WILL DENY: "And what about the small children are orphans after their innocent parents were killed in the attacks on Afghanistan? Che had five kids. I don't think he'd be happy with the aftermath at all. Of course, some kids died themselves. Bombs, malnutrition and starvation have done major damage. If Che lived in Afghanistan, he'd probably be involved in anti-Taliban groups of fighters. Do you think he'd be laughing if Hildita died?"

Actually I think it's safe to say that Che wouldn't be on the anti-taliban side. Well, not any more anyway. He would be on the side of the anti-Northern Alliancers. The new sound, just like the old sound. And I think I'd have a good cry if 'Little Mao' died. Allthough she's not so little anymore.

-Dread

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Dreadnaht1 on 12:59 am on Jan. 23, 2002
Actually I think it's safe to say that Che wouldn't be on the anti-taliban side. Well, not any more anyway. He would be on the side of the anti-Northern Alliancers. The new sound, just like the old sound.

There are people fighting the Taliban and the Northern Alliance. I never meant to imply that Che would be on the same side as the NA, and there are plenty of people who are fighting both.

What good can destroying a side of the Pentagon do, no matter how it's done?

[Dreadnaht1]

Well if they're had been more damage to the pentagon the military would be lead blind for a few hours. It's also the symbolization that they were attacking the U$ military at home which can cause alot of rage. Mindless rage.

-Dread

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Dreadnaht1 on 12:16 am on Jan. 24, 2002
Well if they're had been more damage to the pentagon the military would be lead blind for a few hours. It's also the symbolization that they were attacking the U$ military at home which can cause alot of rage. Mindless rage.

Is causing mindless rage a good idea? No. And a few hours of military blindness (if that) would be hardly a scratch on a record of years and years of continued injustice. Even if it was successful, which it wasn't, it wouldn't be worth it.

[commie]

fuck you and your filty capitalism what does che had to do with 11 september i'm sorry for the people that died bud wasn't it all gods fould becouse god wanted it that way no dude it was all your own gouverment that wanted a war think about that for a wile and then you know what makes communism so good.
no racisem no different people you are all together.

do you understand?



god doesn't bless america, as a matter effect he doesn't exsist you mouran!

[Dreadnaht1]

I think you'll all enjoy this: Last night I was having a similiar conversation on this topic with another mindless American and he told me that I was jealous because U$A was the greatest nation and the only superpower in the world. Now, this is how mindless these people are. He told me, a citizen of the U$A, that I hated it because of jealousy for it, the nation I live in. How stupid can these morons get. And not to stereotype, but he was also a Cuban traitor. What fuck heads. They have the most hollowed out propagandaized ideas in their heads.

-Dread

[Supermodel]

Sneakin' in here as a newbie......

OK just a few points: when you get to the heart of the 9/11 matter it's all about religious fundamentalism, something Che was totally against.

The killing of innocent workers: how on earth could anyone condone this act when people of all nationalities, political persuasions, colors, and income brackets were killed?

Even in the Pentagon, don't you know the place is populated with civilian contractors? The people who died are 50 year old nurses and 25 year old accountants.

Finally, sadly, isn't Hildita already dead? Too sad.Well, at least she and Che will both know now that there IS a heaven and they will be together there.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from commie on 5:48 pm on Jan. 24, 2002
fuck you and your filty capitalism what does che had to do with 11 september i'm sorry for the people that died bud wasn't it all gods fould becouse god wanted it that way no dude it was all your own gouverment that wanted a war think about that for a wile and then you know what makes communism so good.
no racisem no different people you are all together.

do you understand?



god doesn't bless america, as a matter effect he doesn't exsist you mouran!

a) Who was that directed towards?
B) That made no sense, anyway.
c) Spellchecker, anyone?

Supermodel - I agree 100%. When did Hildita die, though?

(Edited by I Will Deny You at 10:21 pm on Jan. 25, 2002)

[Supermodel]

In read in one of my books on Che that Hildita died when she reached the same age as her father when he died. I'll try to find the book again.