che- the failed revelutionary

[Guest]

che was a failed revolutionary. he was a rebel without a cause. he was looking for a fight and Fidel sent him to bolivia because he personally had nothing to lose. if che won in bolivia Fidel would find himself patron of an international revolution against imperialism, if che failed he would have the perfect martyr

[Capitalist]

You are correct 100%.

The more you read about Che GueVara, the more you begin to realize that he and his revolution were rotten to the core.

[Guest]

i'm not saying that what he was doing was wrong, he wanted to fight for the right cause but he wasnt wanted in bolivia by the people and everyone should know that

[jimr]

Propoganda was used by the Bolivian Government to show Che as a criminal, I think i have one intresting cartoon with Che portrayed as a thief and a murderer. Bolivian Goverment had also started to offer bribes to the Peasants. The fact does remain that he was opposed by the Vast majority of teh peasants.

[booga]

did the Alliance for Progress have anything to with Cuba?

[Guest]

in bolivia they had killed che the man, but in their vanity given birth to che the martyr, who was beyond suffering. if they hadnt killed him, if they had exposed him as the failed revolutionary he really was, castro and the world would have been denied their icon. instead che now belonged to the future, to the youth everywhere who felt the need to rebel. they protested inthe image of a man they never knew, students held his banner in the name of peace, but che was a man of war. i'm just telling it how it is.

[booga]

Quote: from Guest on 12:50 am on Dec. 14, 2001
in bolivia they had killed che the man, but in their vanity given birth to che the martyr, who was beyond suffering. if they hadnt killed him, if they had exposed him as the failed revolutionary he really was, castro and the world would have been denied their icon. instead che now belonged to the future, to the youth everywhere who felt the need to rebel. they protested inthe image of a man they never knew, students held his banner in the name of peace, but che was a man of war. i'm just telling it how it is.

so then what? your saying che failed the people of cuba so then what? did cuba fall into the hands of communism or what? i cant believe that there was so much hate for america when in fact kennedy had demonstrated some sucess in issues involving foreign policy. kennedy had built a bond with people in all corners of the world. this alliance of progress was to help latin american countries. but of course someone will say that this is a lie.

but guest i think i know what your saying. i guess i'll have to find out when cuba actually became communist.

[gogo gomez]

im still not convinced che was communist, and even che admitted to his failures but considering what he was up against its possible he left his legacy otherwise why would so many of us be interested in the man? because he was a rebel? please...if the youth of the world want a rebel figure to look to then we turn to the "rock" stars of the world. (not all rock stars, some are heros ) there are just to many aspects to the man, socialism, communism, marxist, economics, industry...whoa.

[juventus10]

I'm just saying how it was in bolivia when he was killed. he wasnt wanted their by anyone, he was looking for his revolution and simply picked a country. it was just like in the congo, he knew nothing about the people he wanted to liberate and he faled to win their trust. he wouldnt listen to anyone and so he failed. like i said before. id he had been exposed as the failed revolutionary he was, you all would have been denied your martyr

[CheGuevara]

If one looks at the map of Che's Bolivian campaign in the Che book by Jon Lee Anderson, it's easy to see that Che operated in a very small portion of the country. During his campaign, he was not trekking all over the country. The area where he chose to launch his campaign from, and near which he remained for most of it, was in an area where the government had just recently given the peasants large amounts of land in a very limited move of agrarian "reform." Yes, this poor research of mentality of the peasants in this area was his fault, and his failure to move away from this area after encountering this bribe-gotten mentality was also his fault. No one claims Che to have been perfect.
However, this rejection by the peasants in that small area of Bolivia does not indicate a general dislike of Che by the people of the country, or at least not his ideas. Poor people, particularly those from the countryside, generally liked his ideas. It's quite possible that if Che had even come later to the same part of Bolivia, after the peasant's initial excitement caused by the "reforms" had died off and they realized that the government and the rich people could still fuck them in a variety of ways, Che might have gained far more support.
As for the Congo, that whole situation was a mess. You had the brutal Congolese generals and their white mercenaries fighting the corrupt "rebel" forces of Lumamba and other warlords. Che realized this after he had already gotten involved, and stayed involved for as long as he did in the hope of making some difference for the slightly better "rebel" forces. Again, better premission intelligence would've helped, although even then in order to get involved it would have been difficult for the Cubans to act independently as a group of foreigners fighting both the government forces and the "rebels." And so Che chose to remain with the lesser of two evils in the hope of making some difference, although it is clear looking back on that campaign that these specific "rebels" were doomed to failure with the way they conducted themselves.
I hold Che's banner in the name of war. I make no pretensions about that. The only peace he would have wanted was the one after the destruction of capitalism.

[juventus10]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 5:17 am on Dec. 14, 2001
If one looks at the map of Che's Bolivian campaign in the Che book by Jon Lee Anderson, it's easy to see that Che operated in a very small portion of the country. During his campaign, he was not trekking all over the country. The area where he chose to launch his campaign from, and near which he remained for most of it, was in an area where the government had just recently given the peasants large amounts of land in a very limited move of agrarian "reform." Yes, this poor research of mentality of the peasants in this area was his fault, and his failure to move away from this area after encountering this bribe-gotten mentality was also his fault. No one claims Che to have been perfect.
However, this rejection by the peasants in that small area of Bolivia does not indicate a general dislike of Che by the people of the country, or at least not his ideas. Poor people, particularly those from the countryside, generally liked his ideas. It's quite possible that if Che had even come later to the same part of Bolivia, after the peasant's initial excitement caused by the "reforms" had died off and they realized that the government and the rich people could still fuck them in a variety of ways, Che might have gained far more support.
As for the Congo, that whole situation was a mess. You had the brutal Congolese generals and their white mercenaries fighting the corrupt "rebel" forces of Lumamba and other warlords. Che realized this after he had already gotten involved, and stayed involved for as long as he did in the hope of making some difference for the slightly better "rebel" forces. Again, better premission intelligence would've helped, although even then in order to get involved it would have been difficult for the Cubans to act independently as a group of foreigners fighting both the government forces and the "rebels." And so Che chose to remain with the lesser of two evils in the hope of making some difference, although it is clear looking back on that campaign that these specific "rebels" were doomed to failure with the way they conducted themselves.
I hold Che's banner in the name of war. I make no pretensions about that. The only peace he would have wanted was the one after the destruction of capitalism.

dont get me wrong, i am a che supporter, and i know that of course he was not ment to be perfect, i just think he should have looked into things a little more carefully . i wasnt referring to anything he did in cuba, although he didnt do much good as an economist there. he should have thought about what other african presidents were saying before rushing in to be the congos savior. it was as if he was trying to prove himself

[Kez]

WTF are you all on about?
Che was in no way a failure.
If it wasnt for che there woudnt of been so much resistence to american imperialism in the world now.
He has proven to be the catyltst in the hearts of many revolutionaries.
I f it wasnt for che i probably would be wearing loads of brand named goods sitting infront of the tv, ignorant of the blatant propganda, and living like the other 95% of the population of Britain

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE
comrade kamo

[Capitalist]

Bolivians didn't like Che Guevara.

Cubans didn't like him either.

He ruined Cuba's economy and chased off all the entrpeneurs, doctors, bankers, foreign, American investors, basically everyone that was productive and all the capital.

basically made Cuba the shit hole island it is today.

They promissed Cuba freedom from Batista's dictatorship. They promissed democracy. Instead they brought a more severe dictatorship, a disastorous economy, and oppression. Now everybody in Cuba gets to live like a poor peasant or a dirty whore for foreign tourist. The poor life that CHe Guevara admired so much is now for everyone in Cuba - everybody but the government officials and tourists.

The Bolivians knew about Che - that is probably why they had him killed right away. They were not going to make the same mistake Cuba made. The educated were not going to allow this bullshit revolution in their country.

[juventus10]

castro's regime has reduced once extreme wealth disparities, given education a higher priority and set up an efficient health service. political dissent is not tolerated though, and there has been a dramatic fall in living standards in recent years. 30 000 cubans have fled to the US to seek asylum.

[Red Star]

Che was no rebel without a cause. He strongly believed in the socialist ideal. He worked 16 hour days 6 days a week and donated his Sunday morning for weeks just to set an example at how people should work to better society.

[Ernestito]

Its just so commom to har this...
specially in this board....
Che had many causes, Che wasn't just anybody...

[Drifter]

he had the best intentions,, but stuffed things up in a few places, he did good for people as well,
i'm an ardent admirer myself.

[Capitalist]

Reporter approached 3 people to ask a question.

One was American

One was Cuban

The third was Chinese.

The Reporter Asked: "What is your opinion on the meat shortage?"

The American replied "What is a shortage?"

The Cuban replied "What is meat?"

The Chinese replied "What is opinion?"

***************************
I don't care what Che Guevara's intentions were. The point is that he did not belong in Cuba and his revolution, like Marxism, was a complete failure.

[libereco]

Quote: from Capitalist on 5:25 pm on Dec. 19, 2001

The Reporter Asked: "What is your opinion on the meat shortage?"

The American replied "What is a shortage?"

Reporter answers: "It's what you cause all around the world my friend."

[Naive]

Nice one Libereco! *lmao*