Thanks I didn't know. You have quite a way with words.
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Your vote doesn't count
With presidential elections, your vote doesn't count as a US citizen. The American bourgeoisie chooses who will be the next President. If you think your vote actually counts, then you need to wake up. It's so sad that 300 million Americans actually think that they live in a democracy and that their Government cares for them. End Capitalism! Socialism and Communism for our future!
Thanks I didn't know. You have quite a way with words.
I have no problem with people being factitious but condescension is no way to welcome new members.
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Anyway, on top of our votes not counting in a fundamental political sense they actually don't even count when they are counted, if they are, and often they aren't, since in the US system voters vote for delegates which they vote are a representative of their constituency so a president can win without getting the most votes, which they have.
OP-
A cool post and very true, but I'm sure most of people here already agreed with you before reading this thread. It would be good to post messages like that on more moderate places on the internet
Anyway welcome to RevLeft, you will meet many like-minded people here.
This is not true. Only about 50% of the eligible voters actually vote. A lot of those who choose not to vote do it because they know it's pointless; and the largest group of non-voters is in the working class (according to Wikipedia). I want to think that this is somehow a sign of class consciousness...perhaps it's just wishful thinking.
As Ken Livingstone ("Red Ken") once pointed out, if voting could make a difference, they'd have abolished the ballot box a long time ago. I refuse to vote myself -- a complete waste of time. And I can't understand how anyone can allow himself or herself to get sucked into the vortex of media-generated hysteria of any election. The choice is always been two scumbags, Tweedledum and Tweedledee, running on virtually identical "platforms."
ernie: I was trying to point out that the U.S. has the biggest sheeple mentality in the world, and it is all thanks to the evil Imperialist Capitalist system of the U.S.This is not true. Only about 50% of the eligible voters actually vote. A lot of those who choose not to vote do it because they know it's pointless; and the largest group of non-voters is in the working class (according to Wikipedia). I want to think that this is somehow a sign of class consciousness...perhaps it's just wishful thinking
fabiansociliast: It's a good thing that you didn't vote, because like you said, it's just a waste of time. I'm sure the Imperialist U.S Government really likes the sheeple media, because really, they couldn't have brainwashed the people without them.
The media isn't sheeple the media is owned by the same people who own the banks and own the governmental players in power.
I doubt anyone here is going to argue that voting isn't a waste of time. Certainly with a quick thought to the basic math, it's not difficult to see your vote doesn't matter. But this isn't lost on most people. They are voting for other reasons though, mainly due to some sense of obligation or good feelings they get from it. So if someone receives satisfaction using their time to vote, they're not necessarily acting irrational or unreasonable or whatever, not anymore than I am if I decide I want to go play basketball at the park for an hour.
Someone suggested this OP would be better off on other forums, but I disagree. Telling people to *wake up* and insulting their intelligence is not an effective method of encouraging someone to consider ideas they are unfamiliar with.
I use to think the presidents were indeed hand picked by bourgeoisie themselves, but I think that assumption is a little naive now. Of course if they get in range of the white house they are going to be thoroughly vetted by the countries owners (not its general population), therefore Democrat/Republican of course means very, very little, and are both factions of the capitalist party.
Although it is true that popular vote doesn't count (being that the electoral college votes=next president), these candidates do indeed dump millions upon millions into fueling their campaigns, so there is definitely some convincing to do. Gathering public support is no doubt important to them. What I would do to be able to see how/about what exactly these people converse with each other behind closed doors.
Just preaching to the choir though.
You know, it's shocking how many leftists, even self-styled Marxists and so-called "anarchists", fail to realise what a sham bourgeois "democracy" is.
The Human Progress Group
Does it follow that I reject all authority? Perish the thought. In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the boot-maker - Mikhail Bakunin
Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains - Karl Marx
Pollution is nothing but the resources we are not harvesting. We allow them to disperse because we've been ignorant of their value - R. Buckminster Fuller
The important thing is not to be human but to be humane - Eliezer S. Yudkowsky
Check out my speculative fiction project: NOVA MUNDI
You're telling me. One of my friends identifies with anarchism, but he's convinced that the reason why conditions are so shitty for people down here, in one of the poorest counties in the US, if not the poorest, is because they don't go out and vote, and thus the government thinks "eh, these people don't give a shit, so they can go fuck themselves". So if people went out and voted, he claims, the government would take notice, and do something about the conditions here.
Of course, it's most likely the other way around - the government doesn't give a shit about the people, so the people don't give a shit about voting. Simple as that. But he stubbornly holds on to this notion.
YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS
[FONT=Book Antiqua]"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity."[/FONT]
Voting provides an oligarchic and unrepresentative system with the veneer, the patina, of legitimacy and respectability it desires. If 10% of the people voted (instead of 50%), it becomes more difficult to maintain the charade that the US is a democracy, and it becomes more transparent what a crooked, oligarchic, imperialistic, militaristic serf-driven empire it really is. Your playing basketball, on the other hand, confers no legitimacy on the evil empire.
This is hilarious.
If the people voted, then the elected officials might -- just might -- build a prison to employ some of the locals as guards and wardens, or might -- just might -- build a missile factory there. But voting will not change the essential contours of the evil empire.
People often cite lesser evilism as a reason to vote. You gain absolutely nothing from participating in elections for political office in the US, except for helping to legitimize their system by participating in it.
We seem to be forgetting that the majority of voters, these being working class, vote in capitalist puppets. Of course, this is due to cradle to grave brainwashing, or just a few silly commie lesser-evilists, but this does not in any way imply that 'your vote doesn't count', and that the bourgeoisie directly chooses the next candidate.
I disagree. More people should vote, for socialist alternatives. It doesn't mean we will win, but it will show our power and influence.
Furthermore, not everything is about parties, there are issues to be voted on, like ballot initiatives.
By losing bourgeois elections?
No, we show our "power and influence" by organising outside the facade and showing it for what it really is; a sham!
Which are entirely up the individual voter in question, as I remember. What business is it of the Left?
The Human Progress Group
Does it follow that I reject all authority? Perish the thought. In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the boot-maker - Mikhail Bakunin
Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains - Karl Marx
Pollution is nothing but the resources we are not harvesting. We allow them to disperse because we've been ignorant of their value - R. Buckminster Fuller
The important thing is not to be human but to be humane - Eliezer S. Yudkowsky
Check out my speculative fiction project: NOVA MUNDI
The political process is crooked, irrespective of the candidates. By the very act of voting -- regardless of whom it is for -- one is tacitly buying into the idea that the system of elections can change the status quo. And thus one is helping to legitimise the very order one wants to demolish. The electoral system is part of the very status quo it pretends to have the power to change: an inherent contradiction. Thus I knew from day one that Obama's talk of hope and change was all bull****. Real power has to be seized by violent means. Those who have real power will not willingly part with it, and will keep changing the rules to see they keep what they have.
