July 4th, 1776. DECLARED independence....not gained.
It was called the Declaration of Independence.
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The Americans have named their independence day as 4th July 1776. But that is in fact wrong. The Americans didn't actually gain independence from the British until 1781 when they pulled out, 5 years afterwards!
(Edited by Ghost at 8:22 pm on June 17, 2003)
July 4th, 1776. DECLARED independence....not gained.
It was called the Declaration of Independence.
Verily poor as we are in democracy, how can we give of it to the world? A democracy conceived in the military servitude of the masses, in their economic enslavement, and nurtured in their tears and blood, is not democracy at all
-Emma Goldman
IWW
although it was not signed for a few months later. but who the hell cares? they would still be patriotic if it was anyother day.
Historically Ghost is being accurate, however you raise a good point Disgustapated.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
- Hanlon's Razor
Not that I am a proud american, because I'm not... but, I must disagree. July 4th, was when the declaration of independence passed by act of the continental congress. So, it is this day that America considered herself an independent nation. It is silly to triffle with a detail like when the British withdrew, considering that the very fact the Continentals had an army and a government made the declartion a statement of fact when it was made.
All that being said, its too bad the British lost.
\"What is a rebel? A man who says no.\" - Camus
Yeah...it'd be great being one of Britains servile colonies.
Verily poor as we are in democracy, how can we give of it to the world? A democracy conceived in the military servitude of the masses, in their economic enslavement, and nurtured in their tears and blood, is not democracy at all
-Emma Goldman
IWW
Nope, it is good that the Americans (with help from the French) chopped off an arm of the British monarchy's empire.
However the poor, who did most of the fighting, got screwed after the War for Independence. The Congress had originally promised all Continental Army soldiers something like 150 acres after the war. But they never got that land. Instead, Congress sold the land off to the wealthy landowners (who already controlled most of the land) in order to "pay for the war debts". We got screwed by our ruling class then, and we've been getting screwed by them ever since.
(Edited by Sensitive at 11:00 am on June 18, 2003)
Even if they were wrong, they will still declare their independence day any day that they like....
CVC
En la lucha por la igualdad...
Sounds nasty SENSITIVE, you should agitate with that up your sleeve. Make posters and post them (what you wrote) up.
give us an organisation or revolutionaries and we will overturn capitalism
Also remember that during this war, the wealthy could buy their way out of fighting by either paying about 300 dollars, or finding someone to fight for them (conscription). They would offer to may some meager amount to the farmer or his family while he was away fighting.
Verily poor as we are in democracy, how can we give of it to the world? A democracy conceived in the military servitude of the masses, in their economic enslavement, and nurtured in their tears and blood, is not democracy at all
-Emma Goldman
IWW
Do you really think that harming the British Empire of the 18th ct. was worth this mamouth Empire of today? I don't.
\"What is a rebel? A man who says no.\" - Camus
For the Americans fighting the British empire at that time there was no reason to indicate that the American ruling-class would create a massive, oppressive empire. It was just a war of liberation from the British empire (and NOT a revolution).
For example, the Iraqis are fighting a war of liberation from the US empire, which we on the left strongly support. However, there is the possibility that after Iraq wins this urban guerilla war that at some point in the future it too could become an oppressive empire. Now, should we oppose the Iraqis for such a minor possibility? Obviously not... and progressive minded people during that time would also have supported the American war for independence from the British empire.
Also, the loss of the American territory did not really hurt the British empire very much. In fact that empire's period of greatness was mainly in the 19th century, after they had already lost this war.
Do you honestly think that the British wouldn't have the exact same thing with this nation as we did ? The British have been just as savage and Imperialistic throughout their history, just on a smaller scale.
Speculating on shit like this is ridiculous because you never know how it would have turned out. For all you know, if the British won they might have taken over the world, anything could have happened, who knows ?
Trying not to sound too imperialistic, I think that if we had retained America as a colony, we may well have taken over the world. Think about the resources we would have been able to fall back on during the world wars. We would never have gone bankrupt and expansion could have continued. I know that was only one aspect, but it is a possibility.
