why is che so important?

[drunktank]

I love Che,
but I admire Jesus more.

I can't see why you admire Che
more than Jesus. What more
did he do?

you spend so many hours reading
the capital and you don't even glance the
greatest revolutionary book ever : the bible.

those Romanians are crazy ..

[pce]

i am definetly interested in reading the bible. i come from a muslim background though so my parents can't help in that respect (furthermore, they aren't religious in the first place). because of this and other reasons, i am also not a believer. one of the things that really turns me off about religion is the vast amounts of killings that have gone on because of it....and in the end, it's to no cause because the essence of all religions is the same. i also don't believe in the idea of creationism. just because we don't know yet (i emphasize YET) how the universe came about, it doesn't mean God created it. people have faith in God. faithe means to believe in something without evidence. science is the search for truth. the very nature of science is that it forces itself to doubt itself...as a result it always strives for the truth.

i hope i don't sound like a cheap advertisement for science. i realize i kind of went off topic there.....sorry. i'm not saying religion is absolutely wrong, nothing is ever certain, and i enjoy discussing religon with believers because they have very interesting and true incites to life.

[drunktank]

pce,

God or not,
Jesus was the greatest
revolutionary ever.

And I wonder
why the teens are Che-maniacs
and not Jesus-fans.

[pce]

i'm sure that's true, but i wish there was a book, other than the bible, that just talked about Jesus as a man.

[CheGuevara]

Jesus helped free how many people? Jesus' teachings helped free how many people?

That's why Che is the better revolutionary.

[drunktank]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 11:56 pm on July 24, 2001
Jesus helped free how many people? Jesus' teachings helped free how many people?

That's why Che is the better revolutionary.

Jesus helped millions of people to free
from the passion. Only when all people
are free from the passion a society is peftect.

In "The Miserables" of V. Hugo you 'll
find a priest. Can you compare him with Che,
and tell me who is a greater revolutionary?

[myrmidon of Che]

http://www.time.com/time/time100/heroes/pr.../guevara01.html

[CheGuevara]

Hmmmmm, it seems to me that life without passion would suck. Unless 'the passion' has a different connotation than 'passion,' a connotation that you might be so kind as to explain to us. I'm no expert on religion, but I thought freedom from passion was Buddhism's big thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Les Miserables fiction?

[CheFara]

hi all
i think Che was a real man, and the greatest revolutionary
but jesus, well, i respect him, but i think cristianism (i come from a cristian family) just make the people submission
(excuse my poor english please)

[RedCeltic]

Jesus was a great man (man not God) but his strugle to free the Judeo religion from the temple priests and give it back to the people was corupted by the Empire of Rome. Just as the old testement wasn't truly writen by the Jews but by non Jewish scribes... Jesus didn't write the Bible, but his followers did. So any power either benifical to society or pernicious is held by his followers. Also Martin Luther did much more to change the face of Christianity than any other Christian leader.

Also V. Hugo's play was ficton, based on the French revolution yes, but the charecters where fictional. You could say Quasimoto in the Hunch back of Notre Dame was a great revolutionary of the Middle Ages... yet he was also invented by Hugo.

My point is that I don't think it is fare to compare Che with Jesus when most that is known of Jesus is from his followers. Also Jesus had 2000 years to impact the world. Che however had only recently died alittle over 30 years ago.

[drunktank]

Quote: from RedCeltic on 8:46 pm on July 25, 2001

Jesus was a great man (man not God) but his strugle to free the Judeo religion from the temple priests and give it back to the people was corupted by the Empire of Rome. Just as the old testement wasn't truly writen by the Jews but by non Jewish scribes... Jesus didn't write the Bible, but his followers did. So any power either benifical to society or pernicious is held by his followers. Also Martin Luther did much more to change the face of Christianity than any other Christian leader.

man not God .. This is debatable..

Remember that his followers
were inspired by him,
as Che was inspired by Marx.
If there was not Jesus,
there would not be any followers of him.
Jesus didn't write, but taught.

Also V. Hugo's play was ficton, based on the French revolution yes, but the charecters where fictional. You could say Quasimoto in the Hunch back of Notre Dame was a great revolutionary of the Middle Ages... yet he was also invented by Hugo.

I didn't speak about Quasimodo.
I spoke about that priest in The miserables.
Be sure that there are such priests.

My point is that I don't think it is fare to compare Che with Jesus when most that is known of Jesus is from his followers.

Also Jesus had 2000 years to impact the world.
Che however had only recently died alittle over 30 years ago. [/quote]

a. Jesus didn;'t write anything.
However everybody knows
him 2000 years later.
Have you ever wondered if Che
will be famous 2000 years after ?

(Edited by drunktank at 1:24 am on July 26, 2001)

[pce]

druntank, who knows what the world will be like in 2000 years. hopefuly by then we will be living in a communist world with peace and che will be remembered as one of "the most complete human beings" in the words of jean-paul sartre. (why are you even debating this? don't you want che to be remembered? aren't you a leftist? the reason we are part of this community is to promote che, it sounds like you're trying to do the opposite)

i'm sure you've seen when rumors spread today about something how distorted they become in such a short time. this is what has happened to the story of jesus and the bible. you cannot tell me that in the first 1000 years or so (before the printed word) when his story was passed on by word of mouth there were no exaggerations made. in the mear 30 years after che's death, his story has been exaggerated by both right and left wingers alike for each of their causes.

i'd be interested if a group of people (religious and non-religious) got together and wrote a truthful book about jesus the man just like how jon lee anderson did with guevara.

[Markxs]

jezus was a rev. he was against church,money,power over ppl.

che was also a revolutionary against church and dictatorship he fight and died for power to the ppl

i dont think jezus or che wanted to be better then others...

they both wanted to help ppl realize that kapitalism is wrong

respect equality liberation imagine.......

so why do we want them to be better ppl

[filimarxist]

Jesus was one of the greatest revolutionaries ever, but his teachings have been tainted by the greed of organized religion, the same thing could happen to the teachings of marx, che and other revolutionaries, they could be used as a method for ppl to gain power (like stalin did), with this in context one should base their life on the basic teachings of jesus which is the same as the basic teachings of marx,che,buddha and various other revolutionaries.

[RedCeltic]

Look, I think they where both great men... but I don't think it's right to compair them and ask who was better... Jesus will always win a debate of who impacted more people, because his name had 2000 years to be spread around. It's like asking who's the most dangerous capitalist? Ronald Regan or G.W.Bush... Now I could fill these pages with resons I think Regan is the definition of evil basterd... but then he had 8 years in office to get that claim... G.W.Bush has potential to do even greater harm to America. And some of the things I hate Regan for (like turning in Communist sypathisers to McCarthy) hapened before he was in office... The point is that while Bush and Regan are both evil men we can not yet compair the two... and the same goes for Jesus and Che... Both are mayrters, and both inspire people. To say one is better than the other is to miss the point of either of their teachings.

as for V. Hugo's charecter the priest... I'm sure there are priests like that... I went a bit over the top compairing him to Quasimodo.

[Guest]

Jesus is fake that's why. if you research what 'priests' did to my ppl. then there is no god. there is science fact. not just beliefs. jesus is fake.

[ramon]

what the residential schools accomplished.
i'm a canadian, part native (indian, as chris columbus idiotically mistaking us as) and the rest of me i don't know. i know what they did. raped and hit my ppl, for speaking their own language. the plan to assimilate the native community failed miserably. today aboriginal ppl are suffering. the so-called 'god' had betrayed them. the priests went unpunished. many of the abused suffered in silence.
what i'm saying is christiananity is a pile of horsesh*t.
that is my opinion. of coarse the rest of you are entitled to yours.

[CheGuevara]

So Isopropanol, what exactly did Jesus(assuming he actually existed) do? Could we get some hard evidence here, and not some leftfield BS like "free them from passion" like drunktank said?