a. Che was trained by libertarian theologists.
b. Raul and Fidel were catholics.
c. There was a priest among them.
d. Che read the bible to his soldiers.
From all these I conclude that Che believed in God.
Maybe I'm wrong :)
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Was Che an atheist? Did he believed in God but was pragmatic when dealings with the problems of society?
a. Che was trained by libertarian theologists.
b. Raul and Fidel were catholics.
c. There was a priest among them.
d. Che read the bible to his soldiers.
From all these I conclude that Che believed in God.
Maybe I'm wrong :)
for the love of love
I have difficulty swallowing your claim that Che read the bible to his soldiers. If you could give me a source, I'd be interested in seeing it(even just the title would be good, if you can't find the exact page number). Che got into an argument with a Catholic Batista officer who joined the rebels over the officer's wish that a loyalty oath include an "under god" clause be made by new recruits. Although it is possible that Che simply wanted a separation of church and guerrilla, I think personal distaste played some part in it.
I have just heard this about the bible.
There goes the "I may be wrong".
To believe the others you just have to read
the CIA files for Che.
for the love of love
This semms to be a hot topic there were several threads about it in the old community.
Che shurely was an atheist, there were several proof for that in his writings. He was an pretty dogmatic Marxist and the Marxist world picture is never religous. Religion is obsolete in a true socialist society.
I have to admit that the church is one of the last social institutions in our globalized society and the pope is one of the only anti-capitalists which is regulary heard by the mass media. But I think that the Marxist analysis of Relligion is still right. Religion is still "dope for the people." (Beside many other things like TV).
"The proletariat, when it seizes power [...] should and must at once undertake socialist measures in the most energetic, unyielding and unhesitant fashion, in other words, exercise a dictatorship, but a dictatorship of the CLASS, not of a party or of a clique -- dictatorship of the class, that means in the broadest possible form on the basis of the most active, unlimited participation of the mass of the people, of unlimited democracy." - Rosa Luxemburg
"An Rhein und Ruhr marschieren wir. / Für unsere Freiheit kämpfen wir! / Den Streifendienst, schlagt ihn entzwei! / Edelweiß marschiert – Achtung – die Straße frei!"
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Who told that a marxist is not religious?
It's time you read about Velouhiotis.
for the love of love
well religion is ok because believing in a spirtual force wich is the energy in everything only strengthens the rev. fire.
then again the church is the worst hierachy power structure in the world.
take from the poor become richer, mis use image of jezus. have power as pope over other ppl. the leaders of the church tell ppl not to revolt. (otherwise they will go to hell).
killing in the name of.......
Weather Che was religious or not, one thing is for sure, Jesus himself was a revolutionary man. He went against the rules, helped the poor, went against the totalitarium government and was a TRUE communist by SHARING and GIVING all he had. Though in this case Jesus never used force, just like MLK and Ghandi, which I think both MLK and Ghandi were leftists like all reformers. Though not part of a guerilla force by any means.
I don't know where I heard this but che said
"If I ever meet jesus I'd squash him like the bug he is"
If that quote is true than I don't think he was christian at least
Dutch boy, i have also read somewhere that che said that quote about squashing jesus. i have also read that he was known to denounce christianity with ease. also, he believed that humans are essentially good, while the church believes in the original sin concept.
most of you (the only exception i can think of is pce) are using christianity and being religious as synonyms. they are not the same thing. i despise christianity and yet i am extremely religious.
I AM THE PERFECT ME!
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.15
Christianity is synonomous with religion. Nicademus, you just follow a different one. Being religious is an adherance to a specific religion worshipping a supernatural power. I don't see the point in people criticizing other's religious beliefs as being invalid or misguided. When freedom of religion is repressed in any part of the world, there is a totalatarianship present of the worse nature.
Che Guevara wannabe
qoute from markxs
then again the church is the worst hierachy power structure in the world.
take from the poor become richer, mis use image of jezus. have power as pope over other ppl. the leaders of the church tell ppl not to revolt. (otherwise they will go to hell).
you are forgetting that the church is split among itself the pope has no power over those who are not catholic and as a christian who believes through choice and does not attend a specific church and thus is not bound financially nor by laws which were not stated upon the new testament if you read into christianity you would see that jesus cared for all people not just the neady as does the church is you do not take such an athiest overview and read into it before you your selves construct critiscism!
Whatever you call it,
Nickademus,
the God is one
and the pray is one.
And you don't need to
put labels on your pray.
But if you pray correctly
you'll reach the simplest.
I let you find alone what is it
(Edited by drunktank at 5:11 pm on Aug. 25, 2001)
for the love of love
EZ, I agree Jesus was a revolutionist, but i must say that he did use violence and was prepared to use violence. he advised his disciples to carry swords etc. i will have to get exact passages from a book which mentions this. the zealots were also part of his entourage and they were know to use violence along with judas iscariot, who was part of an assassin group sicari. im wholeheartedly anti christian and anti religion and by no means beleive jesus to be divine but he was a revolutionary and a man who ended up being a failure as he failed to overthrow herod and take his kingdom back.
ha ha ha. Wherever did you get the idea that Jesus' strategy was to overthrow Herod and take his kingdom? I think his strategy was more of teaching the Jews how to rebel against the jewish laws of the prophets. And carrying a sword was just good for slaughtering lamb, a mainstay of their diet.
Che Guevara wannabe
actually guest i got that from a few sources, herod is even quoted in the bible as saying that he fears jesus is getting closer, why else would he be crucified? crucifixion was for revolutionists who oppossed the roman empire. jesus used a pure form of jewish teachings, qumran text, whether you laugh or not jesus was trying to overthrow the empire.
haha in the bible it says herod fear jesus as he is spoken to be the king of the jews which would be a problem if you allready are the king of the jews
Jesus WAS the king of Israel.
King as a God,
not as a Man
He was the Messiah.
for the love of love
enough of the king of man bullshit drunktank, i think the lot of us have heard enough of your christian propaganda. anway those laughing at my statements can continue if you like, im under the impression that you guys are christians who seem to take what the bible says as actual fact. read some actual history books and you will see things dont line up. jesus was a legitimate king not a puppet king like herod, thats why he was feared because he was leading a charge with the help of zealots and other groups. but in the end, drunk tank your"man god" was a failure. he didnt succeed. peace
