Small business collectivization and Leftist civil war.

[StrictlyRuddie]

With small businesses such as a dollar store or a small neighborhood restaurant, how would these type of businesses be collectivized?

And after the revolution, since we do have the two basic factions of leftist theory (authoritarian and Libertarian) would we as the working class be able to set up peaceful resolution with each other? For instance when Bolshevik troops were aided by the Ukraine anarchists against the whites, they were later stamped out and taken over by the soviets. Do you think we can have a peaceful co-existence with anarchist communities and just consider them as already having reached the final stage of communism?

[Vendetta]

I'm assuming they'd be collectivized the same way as everything else would be.

As for your second question, it'd be nice.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

[FONT=Arial]As a libertarian socialist in the tradition of Tucker, Kropotkin, and Goldman, I favor direct, non-statist action towards small businesses, such as strikes, sit-ins, and protests. These properties are not anymore benefactors from the state than your local community home. Of course the efficiency of these actions will vary greatly depending on the enterprise. A small business owner who works at home will probably go unnoticed. One who branches out and does nothing, stipulating only fractional profits, would probably have the most to deal with.

[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Outright collectivization of the petit-bourgeoisie has, historically, caused more problems than created solutions.

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Do you think we can have a peaceful co-existence with anarchist communities and just consider them as already having reached the final stage of communism?

[FONT=Arial]Hopefully.
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[Q]

Do you think we can have a peaceful co-existence with anarchist communities and just consider them as already having reached the final stage of communism?

A rather idealist remark that shows that you think anarchism/communism is just another way of producing things, this is quite incorrect. Communism is a higher form of society which features a productivity that leaves capitalism in the dust. For this to reach an international planned economy to serve the needs of all is needed. How would a bunch of local communities be able to achieve that?

As an added question: Isolation was the major reason why the Soviet Union degenerated into Stalinism, because the backward Russia wasn't at all able to solve the inequalities as inherited by capitalist society. How would these local anarchist communities be able to fight the same mechanisms towards stratification that would only be stronger in a smaller area? The example of Makhno comes to mind: "everything Makhno says is law... unless he's drunk".

[Reclaimed Dasein]

Communists could just do what Marx said they should do in the Communist Manifesto. Just leave them alone until they die. They aren't competitive relative to mass production, so just let those people die out and just prevent the business from getting to large.

[Q]

Communists could just do what Marx said they should do in the Communist Manifesto. Just leave them alone until they die. They aren't competitive relative to mass production, so just let those people die out and just prevent the business from getting to large.

Nail on the head. Small business simply cannot compete with a planned economy that serves in the needs of all.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

[FONT=Arial]I too echo this sentiment.

Turn the corporations over to the workers. Turn the public sector over to the workers. Some guy running a tee shop? Whatever.


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[Reclaimed Dasein]

[FONT=Arial]I too echo this sentiment.

Turn the corporations over to the workers. Turn the public sector over to the workers. Some guy running a tee shop? Whatever.


[/FONT]

Exactly.

On an unrelated note, who would have thought Marx would have an answer for an economic question?

[Black Sheep]

The leftist civil war is a very interesting topic, it could result into a tragedy.

I can already see it..
A communist party comes to power with a considerable workers support,while a significant proportion is influenced and anarchist ideas.Anarchists organize powerful demonstrations,sit downs and local communities as preemptive defense mechanism, the communist party outlaws the opportunist radicals in the name of the workers' authority.

Street fighting continues, the international mass media stay idle and watch carefully, as they continuously preach 'the hate and bloodbath communism brings about once more', and begin to diplomatically isolate and surround the nearby countries,where state's authority and suppression forces become maximized.

After the civil war, the X faction is the winner,but the working class is disillusioned, the spirit of solidarity is wrecked, and a reformist government is established, which first and foremost outlaws the communist party/parties,all similar political parties and prosecutes radicalism and leftism in general.

Way to go.

[AnthArmo]

The leftist civil war is a very interesting topic, it could result into a tragedy.

I can already see it..
A communist party comes to power with a considerable workers support,while a significant proportion is influenced and anarchist ideas.Anarchists organize powerful demonstrations,sit downs and local communities as preemptive defense mechanism, the communist party outlaws the opportunist radicals in the name of the workers' authority.

Street fighting continues, the international mass media stay idle and watch carefully, as they continuously preach 'the hate and bloodbath communism brings about once more', and begin to diplomatically isolate and surround the nearby countries,where state's authority and suppression forces become maximized.

After the civil war, the X faction is the winner,but the working class is disillusioned, the spirit of solidarity is wrecked, and a reformist government is established, which first and foremost outlaws the communist party/parties,all similar political parties and prosecutes radicalism and leftism in general.

Way to go.

That is sad and it happens way too many times .

Perhaps in future it would be more logical for the vanguard party to be made up of a coalition of Leftist-Socialist parties with an agreed agenda that caters to all groups involved. Come the Proletarian revolution, A multiparty workers democracy is instated, History will naturally move things in favor of a Communist society. The most important thing to do is to smash the Bourgeois state.

[FONT=Arial]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial]I too echo this sentiment.

Turn the corporations over to the workers. Turn the public sector over to the workers. Some guy running a tee shop? Whatever. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]

Here here!
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[redguard2009]

The concept of a leftist civil war is appealing, if only as a necessity (but also because I'd prefer tragic action to tragic inaction).

Call me angsty, but I'd prefer a good fight with another leftist to all of this "sitting around" (not always, but sometimes literally).

Small businesses need not be befallen with slaughter, but public coaxing towards working equality should be enacted; even if only in the form of a rather hefty employment tax which pressures small businesses to create partnership policies with their small number of employees (if you have employees you pay the tax; if you allow your employees some ownership of the business then you do not, simple as that).

And it's not as doomsday as firebombing tea shops and family toy stores.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

(if you have employees you pay the tax; if you allow your employees some ownership of the business then you do not, simple as that).

[FONT=Arial]I was actually thinking about this prospect when the thread first appeared. As a matter of principle I don't see a problem with such a proposal. I don't know if it's necessary - the pressure to join an employee cooperative or workers' council would probably great - but if we're going to levy taxes we may as well consider this a possibility. [/FONT]