How lefties turn people off

[Francois Tremblay]

I find it very interesting that you guys seem to have absolutely no clue whatsoever how much you turn off potential lefties. I am talking not about my experience here (which was brief), but my experience with the leftie Anarchists in general. There seems to be a constant, persistent desire to hate anyone who does not fully agree with your ideology. The existence of this sub-forum is eloquent enough, as well as the kind of people you "restrict." People who could get to understand your side of the story, and see its good sides- like I have in the past months. While I am now a leftie and a socialist, I still resent many lefties for the fact that their hostility has made me reject their positions for so long. You guys seem to love creating your own enemies. (even your own FAQ has long strawman and quote-mining diatribes against every Anarchist you don't agree with!) Even though I consider myself a leftie, I will not participate in this board because there is too much hostility. You wasted my time and you waste everyone's time. You pretty much have no interest in helping others- which is fine, but pretty useless for the movement. As long as you keep thinking of other people as enemies, you'll never move forward. I became a leftie IN SPITE of you guys, not thanks to you guys.

[jaiden]

i agree. the leftist ideology has too many contradictions. from what i have read on this site and from other sites, i see obvious arrogance. ironically superiority is evident here as well. seriously guys, re-read your philosophy some more.

[Bright Banana Beard]

i agree. the leftist ideology has too many contradictions. from what i have read on this site and from other sites, i see obvious arrogance. ironically superiority is evident here as well. seriously guys, re-read your philosophy some more.

Can you point me to obvious arrogance, ironically superiority? Now that is ironic because it is the anti-revleft said that, not us. Many of us nod there is many flaws in our theories and still, we are going to see new -ism, theory and etc. Inevitable is not what we acknowledge, but desirable does.

Just because we argued and won a topic does not mean we superior or shit. It just show there is flaw.

[Glenn Beck]

Debates in politics in general and the radical left specifically can get pretty uncivil.
I think RevLeft is neither unique nor exceptional in suffering from an acute case of internet tough guy disease. Personally I'm of the "ignore and watch it wither" school of thought on that. Check out the comments on Digg and you will see far, far worse.

[Raúl Duke]

I don't know....

When I debate stuff that is borderline leftist to revolutionary leftist to people (who aren't right-wing. i.e. liberals and moderates) I don't necessarily turn people off.

Sometimes they are interested (and see that I have a point, usually they say that when I use history to back me up), a few times sympathetic, and other times they don't care (as in, they don't care about that or anything overtly political).

But I don't remember times in which I "turned people off", at least not in real life.

[Dr Mindbender]

if we allowed just anyone to post in the main board, it would distract it's intended context and descend into us going over the same tired arguments rather than discussing revolutionary organisation. The opposing ideologies board exists for the purpose of arguing with reactionaries.

Without restriction, the entire forum would just be one big OI board.

Revleft is not, I repeat NOT, an intended mircrocosm of a post capitalist society.

[Bud Struggle]

if we allowed just anyone to post in the main board, it would distract it's intended context and descend into us going over the same tired arguments rather than discussing revolutionary organisation. The opposing ideologies board exists for the purpose of arguing with reactionaries.

Without restriction, the entire forum would just be one big OI board.

Revleft is not, I repeat NOT, an intended mircrocosm of a post capitalist society.

I agree and I'm a confirmed Capitalist. Opposing discussion is nice. It points out the chinks in the Communist playbook and it hones discussion skill of the Communist around here. On the other hand the Commies need a place that they can go and discuss and debate and learn what it is they actually believe and are fighting for without constantly justifying their existance to people that disagree with them.

The way RevLeft operated is probably the best compromise that can reasonable be thought up for the time being.

[Joe Hill's Ghost]

I find it very interesting that you guys seem to have absolutely no clue whatsoever how much you turn off potential lefties. I am talking not about my experience here (which was brief), but my experience with the leftie Anarchists in general. There seems to be a constant, persistent desire to hate anyone who does not fully agree with your ideology. The existence of this sub-forum is eloquent enough, as well as the kind of people you "restrict." People who could get to understand your side of the story, and see its good sides- like I have in the past months. While I am now a leftie and a socialist, I still resent many lefties for the fact that their hostility has made me reject their positions for so long. You guys seem to love creating your own enemies. (even your own FAQ has long strawman and quote-mining diatribes against every Anarchist you don't agree with!) Even though I consider myself a leftie, I will not participate in this board because there is too much hostility. You wasted my time and you waste everyone's time. You pretty much have no interest in helping others- which is fine, but pretty useless for the movement. As long as you keep thinking of other people as enemies, you'll never move forward. I became a leftie IN SPITE of you guys, not thanks to you guys.

1. How can you be a socialist and an anarcho capitalist?
2. You were ostensibly restricted becuase you're a capitalist, and we're not interested in trying to justify our existence in every thread. We have other things to discuss
3. Your icy reception inevitably relates to your otherwise snarky disposition. You did once equate anarcho-communism with stalinism if I recall correctly. And this nasty post here is a good example of it too.
4. Of course the board is about hostile theoretical discussion, organizing work goes down in quasi private in the real world. I never reveal more than the basics of my shit. Revleft is for theory mostly.

[Killfacer]

is this another lefty who has been rejected my revleft because he made some rash statements. Hmm.

[Incendiarism]

A lot of people on the left do seem elitist, and I'm guilty of this type of behavior in real life, but nothing compares to the scorn, indignation, and dismissive posturing of the right. To them we are all utopian dreamers and clearly hate rationality.

It's a good thing I'm a quiet person and shy away from arrogance.

[Bud Struggle]

is this another lefty who has been rejected my revleft because he made some rash statements. Hmm.

But we here in OI take him with open arms.

Francois, welcome! We're having our OI Back to School Memership Drive and you are our first recruit.

Enjoy, the OI is much more fun than RevLeft, anyway.

but nothing compares to the scorn, indignation, and dismissive posturing of the right. To them we are all utopian dreamers and clearly hate rationality.

Not here in OI. It's the RevLefters that run around calling us OIers morons and idiots and other personal invectives. For the most part we OI Capitalists are pretty decent in our remarks in discussion and temperate in our vocabulary to everyone we chat with.

[Lector Malibu]

A lot of people on the left do seem elitist, and I'm guilty of this type of behavior in real life, but nothing compares to the scorn, indignation, and dismissive posturing of the right. To them we are all utopian dreamers and clearly hate rationality.

It's a good thing I'm a quiet person and shy away from arrogance.

I'm not elitist in real life at all. I avoid the right as much as possible as well.

[Dean]

Not here in OI. It's the RevLefters that run around calling us OIers morons and idiots and other personal invectives. For the most part we OI Capitalists are pretty decent in our remarks in discussion and temperate in our vocabulary to everyone we chat with.

Actually, most of the antagonism is in-fighting, most of the OI contention is from OIers (though it has dies down in the last few months). This is waht I experience, at least, throughout the whole board.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I'm not elitist in real life at all. I avoid the right as much as possible as well.

LoL do you live in a a cave?

[Mindtoaster]

I find it very interesting that you guys seem to have absolutely no clue whatsoever how much you turn off potential lefties. I am talking not about my experience here (which was brief), but my experience with the leftie Anarchists in general. There seems to be a constant, persistent desire to hate anyone who does not fully agree with your ideology. The existence of this sub-forum is eloquent enough, as well as the kind of people you "restrict." People who could get to understand your side of the story, and see its good sides- like I have in the past months. While I am now a leftie and a socialist, I still resent many lefties for the fact that their hostility has made me reject their positions for so long. You guys seem to love creating your own enemies. (even your own FAQ has long strawman and quote-mining diatribes against every Anarchist you don't agree with!) Even though I consider myself a leftie, I will not participate in this board because there is too much hostility. You wasted my time and you waste everyone's time. You pretty much have no interest in helping others- which is fine, but pretty useless for the movement. As long as you keep thinking of other people as enemies, you'll never move forward. I became a leftie IN SPITE of you guys, not thanks to you guys.

This is a discussion board, not a debate board. Its pretty simple

[Lector Malibu]

LoL do you live in a a cave?

Sometimes I wish. Really though I don't casually hang out and fence walk with right wing people in my personal life.

[Red Phalanx]

Sadly, I see leftists turning people off all the time. Too many of them are so wrapped up in their own arguments that they can't see what is driving the other guy. Too many of us act as if everyone who is not on the left suffer from psychological problems.

I have also seen many leftists turned off by the level and amount of in-fighting that goes on between leftists. We tend to hack each other up more than the enemy.

[Lector Malibu]

Sadly, I see leftists turning people off all the time. Too many of them are so wrapped up in their own arguments that they can't see what is driving the other guy. Too many of us act as if everyone who is not on the left suffer from psychological problems.

I have also seen many leftists turned off by the level and amount of in-fighting that goes on between leftists. We tend to hack each other up more than the enemy.

This is a good post. I have also seen a high level of infighting right here on this site.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

[FONT=Arial]Most major forums with a particular bent have some measure of restrictions. [/FONT][FONT=Arial]FreeRepublic and DemocraticUnderground ban heterodox users. I've repeated this line probably more times than I should - considering I oppose the use of restrictions as well (it's not skin off my back if you participate in the Literature forum) - but stop playing up something that occurs everywhere.

Count yourself lucky that we're so generous. We could treat capitalists like forum members at SeanHannity.com treat liberals, but we like the company.
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[gla22]

[FONT=Arial]SeanHannity.com[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial] i think i am going to join and see what happens.
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