A communist revolution...some questions regarding

[forward]

If a communist revolution does indeed take place, would you kill all capitalists or those who are resistant to your ways like Lenin did to gain power (he killed innocent people)?And didn't Marx say there should be no government. Then why was there a government in the Soviet Union? When the Bolsheviks gained power and defeated the Czarist system, why didn't they step down? Isn't that the ideal way? Perhaps because he wanted to keep the power, because humans are naturally greedy, not the result of capitalism, because of survival of the fittest has always existed and competition before capitalism. When you start this revolution, how can people trust that once you establish power that you will giv it all back and have the power in the workers?I mean, once you seize power, wouldn't it be better to kill all opposition and maintain a state of terror that gives your privledges? Oh, wouldn't that be nice, or being in the Party, getting special treatment and whatnot. When you start the revolution, would it be with a vanguard, and anyone experienced revolutionary be in the Party, and then destroy democracy, while the majority suffers at the hands of your brutal ways, and have a secret police system, kinda like the NKVD, with excessive powers, and send all those who dont have blind obideince to the leader to the Gulags...Wait, how is this better than capitalism?

[danyboy27]

If a communist revolution does indeed take place, would you kill all capitalists or those who are resistant to your ways like Lenin did to gain power (he killed innocent people)?And didn't Marx say there should be no government. Then why was there a government in the Soviet Union? When the Bolsheviks gained power and defeated the Czarist system, why didn't they step down? Isn't that the ideal way? Perhaps because he wanted to keep the power, because humans are naturally greedy, not the result of capitalism, because of survival of the fittest has always existed and competition before capitalism. When you start this revolution, how can people trust that once you establish power that you will giv it all back and have the power in the workers?I mean, once you seize power, wouldn't it be better to kill all opposition and maintain a state of terror that gives your privledges? Oh, wouldn't that be nice, or being in the Party, getting special treatment and whatnot. When you start the revolution, would it be with a vanguard, and anyone experienced revolutionary be in the Party, and then destroy democracy, while the majority suffers at the hands of your brutal ways, and have a secret police system, kinda like the NKVD, with excessive powers, and send all those who dont have blind obideince to the leader to the Gulags...Wait, how is this better than capitalism?

i know what you mean, revolutions sucked bad in many countries, for the reason you mentionned.

the thing is, human are not naturally greed, but power corrupt, and the reflex of majority in time of incertitude is to turn in the dirrection of the authority, communist or capitalist. perhaps marx didnt expected that problem.

i think that, revolution, has many of us see it is completly wrong, even if it will happen, it will finish either in a dictatorship or a bloodbath(massive killing). the degree of social awareness of the world is not high enough to permit us to do something peaceful atm.

But i am confident that, with time, with carefully planned move, we can achieve a quiet and peacefull revolution.

[forward]

Well I think most people are greedy (look at this world) and will react neagivetly to change. You cannot have a peaceful revolution if the majority supports the status quo. And how can you ensure that it will work good once it is established? Like people will take more than what their needs are...and wont share....and there will be inevitable turmoil because there is no government to keep people in place.

[F9]

If a communist revolution does indeed take place, would you kill all capitalists or those who are resistant to your ways like Lenin did to gain power (he killed innocent people)?

no,in a revolution we dont going to kill capitalists.We will defend the revolution from counter-revolutionaries and that would get and killings,no one is going to die from what he believes.But yes those who try to kill us and step to our way we will fight them,what we are going to let them kill us instead?

And didn't Marx say there should be no government. Then why was there a government in the Soviet Union? When the Bolsheviks gained power and defeated the Czarist system, why didn't they step down? Isn't that the ideal way? Perhaps because he wanted to keep the power, because humans are naturally greedy, not the result of capitalism, because of survival of the fittest has always existed and competition before capitalism.

I myself not a Marxist and not the ideal person to answer you this on who they think of it.But i can say what i know.Yes Marx said that there wont be no goverment in communism,although to get to communism he says that the state will be there with the dictaroship of the proletariat,this would be the transitional stage to finally come communism with no goverment.(notice that USSR was NOT a communist country).
I myself dissagree with the aboves but i told you what happened!

When you start this revolution, how can people trust that once you establish power that you will giv it all back and have the power in the workers?

Who are us?WE are the workers,we wont steal ourselwes!

I mean, once you seize power, wouldn't it be better to kill all opposition and maintain a state of terror that gives your privledges? Oh, wouldn't that be nice, or being in the Party, getting special treatment and whatnot.. When you start the revolution, would it be with a vanguard, and anyone experienced revolutionary be in the Party, and then destroy democracy, while the majority suffers at the hands of your brutal ways, and have a secret police system, kinda like the NKVD, with excessive powers, and send all those who dont have blind obideince to the leader to the Gulags...

Thats not communism!

Wait, how is this better than capitalism?

You propably dont know much about Communism thats why you see no differences from capitalism.The "arguments" you setting above just dont count because they dont express communism but facism.

Fuserg9

[danyboy27]

Well I think most people are greedy (look at this world) and will react neagivetly to change. You cannot have a peaceful revolution if the majority supports the status quo. And how can you ensure that it will work good once it is established? Like people will take more than what their needs are...and wont share....and there will be inevitable turmoil because there is no government to keep people in place.

look at your private message dude!
i wanna talk to you in private if possible.

[Lost In Translation]

If a communist revolution does indeed take place, would you kill all capitalists or those who are resistant to your ways like Lenin did to gain power (he killed innocent people)?And didn't Marx say there should be no government. Then why was there a government in the Soviet Union? When the Bolsheviks gained power and defeated the Czarist system, why didn't they step down? Isn't that the ideal way? Perhaps because he wanted to keep the power, because humans are naturally greedy, not the result of capitalism, because of survival of the fittest has always existed and competition before capitalism. When you start this revolution, how can people trust that once you establish power that you will giv it all back and have the power in the workers?I mean, once you seize power, wouldn't it be better to kill all opposition and maintain a state of terror that gives your privledges? Oh, wouldn't that be nice, or being in the Party, getting special treatment and whatnot. When you start the revolution, would it be with a vanguard, and anyone experienced revolutionary be in the Party, and then destroy democracy, while the majority suffers at the hands of your brutal ways, and have a secret police system, kinda like the NKVD, with excessive powers, and send all those who dont have blind obideince to the leader to the Gulags...Wait, how is this better than capitalism?

You would make a very good addition to the OI...

[forward]

I'm talking about the practical compoenets of communism. They are no more ideal than fascism. Actually they are FASCIST in many respects. Both have controlled economy and absolute obidence to the elite. I find it ironic that communists advocate equality, but the reality is so much different....

[danyboy27]

I'm talking about the practical compoenets of communism. They are no more ideal than fascism. Actually they are FASCIST in many respects. Both have controlled economy and absolute obidence to the elite. I find it ironic that communists advocate equality, but the reality is so much different....

communism and fascist is not the same thing, the only thing that make them similar is that they are both extreme.

[F9]

your brain is fascism because you have no idea on what you are talking about,you just come here and spread the propaganda some other told to you.Go learn what communism is,and then start judging with stupid arguments.

Fuserg9

[danyboy27]

your brain is fascism because you have no idea on what you are talking about,you just come here and spread the propaganda some other told to you.Go learn what communism is,and then start judging with stupid arguments.

Fuserg9

its not a proper way to learn to someone

[Lost In Translation]

Tell me, forward, what is it about communism THE THEORY that you don't like. I don't care about the history of "Communism", many people don't like that part, but is it about the theory that you don't like?

[forward]

Fuserg9I know what communism is, I am simply saying that it is impractical because it will always turn out badly knowing humans are involved. The PRACTICAL applications of communism are like fascism, not the theoretical. globalcommie94,Well I am not arguing the theory, I am arguing what inevitably results from it. But in the theory, even I dont like it, because there is no room for improvement and no room to make more money for your labour.

[Trystan]

f a communist revolution does indeed take place, would you kill all capitalists or those who are resistant to your ways like Lenin did to gain power (he killed innocent people)?

If necessary, yes. If the will of the people is sufficiently towards communism, then they cannot have much influence anyway. But they are welcome to join us, of course.

And didn't Marx say there should be no government. Then why was there a government in the Soviet Union? When the Bolsheviks gained power and defeated the Czarist system, why didn't they step down? Isn't that the ideal way?

Marx taught that before we can reach communism, we must pass through a period of transition; a socialist stage. The Leninists believe that a dictatorship of the proletariat is necessary, to make major socialist overhauls. This is why the Bolsheviks did not give up their power; it was to do with theory, not "being naturally greedy". The anarchists have a different take on this - they would be done with the state immediately and achieve communism through the already existing unions and federations.

When you start this revolution, how can people trust that once you establish power that you will giv it all back and have the power in the workers?I mean, once you seize power, wouldn't it be better to kill all opposition and maintain a state of terror that gives your privledges?

Because we will need to be as democratic as possible. Revolution from below; democracy from below. The Party should be open, and decisions should not be made by a small clique. When the next revolution arrives, we need to be more democratic next time. Why would we want the privledges? I am opposed to that. Most communists are.

Oh, wouldn't that be nice, or being in the Party, getting special treatment and whatnot

Sarcasm goes unanswered. Sorry.

When you start the revolution, would it be with a vanguard, and anyone experienced revolutionary be in the Party, and then destroy democracy,

Now you're answering your own questions with tired clichés. Communism: a stateless, classless society. We wish to unite the working class and put power in their hands. These are our goals. The methods in attaining it are many. The Gulag is one, but I doubt you'd find many Stalinists (with a mental age of an adult) around today.

and send all those who dont have blind obideince to the leader to the Gulags...Wait, how is this better than capitalism?

Stalinism wasn't better than capitalism. Communism is. Do you want to know why we hate capitalism? Read books. Read about its history of slavery, of the wars that have been fought for profit. Read about how, in the 1980s, when the people of Ethiopia were starving to death, 75% of the money produced in that country was sent to Europe. Is that better than the world we are trying to realize? Ethically, is it not wrong to support such a system?

Any more questions, feel free to ask.

[forward]

What if someone lives nicely under capitalism because they worked hard to get there and they do not want their children to live under poverty in communism? Will you kill theem?Most people are greedy though. I mean I would love to have power. If I had power I wouldnt give it up. It's natural for humans to want power. Yes I know what communism is in THEORY, but it doesnt work like it does in theory. And I know that communism in attempted again will be like the Soviet Union. Poverty would be evident espeically because the economy is centrally controlled, so the planning commitee would not know where to allocate resources because the forces of supply and demand are not the guiding force. So they would probably give more to those in authorirty, because who cares about the working class when you can have more eh? Also mass production was high but that doest mean stuff are any good. Look at Cuba and their 1950 cars. nice, eh? Stalin was the inevitable result of communism. Other leader like him could rise because communism is the breeding ground for dictatorships. And fyi, the Us isn't capitalist. no country is. Read books on that.

[danyboy27]

What if someone lives nicely under capitalism because they worked hard to get there and they do not want their children to live under poverty in communism? Will you kill theem?Most people are greedy though. I mean I would love to have power. If I had power I wouldnt give it up. It's natural for humans to want power. Yes I know what communism is in THEORY, but it doesnt work like it does in theory. And I know that communism in attempted again will be like the Soviet Union. Poverty would be evident espeically because the economy is centrally controlled, so the planning commitee would not know where to allocate resources because the forces of supply and demand are not the guiding force. So they would probably give more to those in authorirty, because who cares about the working class when you can have more eh? Also mass production was high but that doest mean stuff are any good. Look at Cuba and their 1950 cars. nice, eh? Stalin was the inevitable result of communism. Other leader like him could rise because communism is the breeding ground for dictatorships. And fyi, the Us isn't capitalist. no country is. Read books on that.

seriously foward, ask me those question in private, you just dont know what kind of fury you will unleash here!

[Lost In Translation]

seriously foward, ask me those question in private, you just dont know what kind of fury you will unleash here!

Seriously, the Commie Club members will rip you apart, forward.

[#FF0000]

Forward, you are arguing from a flawed premise. Authoritarianism is NOT a necessary component of socialism.

[Trystan]

What if someone lives nicely under capitalism because they worked hard to get there and they do not want their children to live under poverty in communism?

Hypothetically speaking, huh? Well, hypothetically speaking, what if somebody who works werally, weally hard like a good little prole and does not live particularly nicely, for whatever reason? The slogan "You can all get rich of you work hard enough is a myth". And why do you assume that people would live in poverty under communism? I guess you are referring to the USSR. Well, as I've said somewhere already today, the USSR was not communist state. It was bureaucratic collectivist ruled by a communist party. However, in Cuba, they have one of the best health care systems in the world. The country has some major political issues, but at least health care is better than it is in the US.

Will you kill theem?

No. Why do you keep asking questions like this? We don't want to kill anybody.

Most people are greedy though. I mean I would love to have power. If I had power I wouldnt give it up. It's natural for humans to want power.

Is it? Then why are most people powerless? Power is what we want (and I say that as a member of the general population). Power to chose our own fates and not have it dictated to by the rich who make money off their backs.

Yes I know what communism is in THEORY, but it doesnt work like it does in theory.

How do you know? The theory I was talking about was Marx's transition from capitalism to socialism and Lenin's idea of the proletarian dictatorship. This is a theory that was misguided, sure, but its failure is not the failure of communism. Communism is, of course, perfectly workable. Communal living has been successful throughout history. I think that I have explained this sufficiently now, so I will not answer the rest of your post which makes similar allusions to the USSR.

And I know that communism in attempted again will be like the Soviet Union.

Don't talk like you "know" what's going to happen. Please. Nobody knows.

[danyboy27]

Seriously, the Commie Club members will rip you apart, forward.

i dont think they will rip him appart, all they will do is make him so angry that he will never come back, and will hate everything that represent social progress forever.

i ask him to talk me in private, so we can work this out peacefully.
he not forced to think like me, i just want to discuss peacefully, and avoid a forum fury, i hate that.

[forward]

Ok I meant if people did not want to live in poverty for their childrens' sake so they used violence against those who wanted to destroy their dreams (the revolutionaries). Cuba's healthcare system is not better than the US. I like the healthcare in the US, because if you have the money you get the treatment immediately, rather than long waiting lists. Also think Cuba has a great medical system? Their facilities are crap. People want power to lead others. Most people want to be on the top. If communism is workable, why did it fail all the times it has been attempted? How come there wasnt been a successful communist state?