Anarchism and communism.

[Revolutiondownunder]

Im fairly new to this, and I have read up a bit online but I would like to know from the horses mouth so to speak.

What is anarchism, and why do there seem to be so many different types?

How is Trotskyism different from Stalinism?

What would a truely socialist/anarchist/communist world look like?

I am not really committed to any ideology, but I want to learn as much as I can, hope these are not stupid questions...

[Dean]

Im fairly new to this, and I have read up a bit online but I would like to know from the horses mouth so to speak.

What is anarchism, and why do there seem to be so many different types?

Anarchism is the opposition to forces which strip away our ability to be free human beings. Necessarily, this oppsoes economic centrism such as capitalism exemplifies. Many forms of "anarchism" are hardly anarchistic.

How is Trotskyism different from Stalinism?

I leave this for someone else, I'm not much of an expert. Basically, though, Trotskyists seem more interested in decentralization, and can usually be distinguished by their opposition to Soviet dogmatism.

What would a truely socialist/anarchist/communist world look like?

we can't know for sure, but we can make come comments on what it means to have a communist society. For starters, it is based around associative society. That is, human beings are increasingly social in a communist societ,y and we alleviate competition while cultivating the more cooperative elements of our society. It would also be based around human spontaneity and actuation of the self. Basically, the concept is that society should seek to encourage, rahter than hinder, the free, educated and rational development of humans.

I am not really committed to any ideology, but I want to learn as much as I can, hope these are not stupid questions...

Not at all. Sometimes, questions may seem sill yor simplistic, but it is usually those times when those who are faced with such questions realyl step back and realize some pretty simple or fundamental aspects of their thoughts that they have neglected or misunderstood. You should understand your inquiries from the context that they are just as much an inquiry of my own (and any other respondent) into our own thoughts. I hope you can learn a lot, and remain focused.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Many forms of "anarchism" are hardly anarchistic.

My Favorite is Anarcho-Capitalist

[Joe Hill's Ghost]

What is anarchism, and why do there seem to be so many different types?

Anarchism is the revolutionary program that we must oppose all forms of coercive power. This entails the elimination of all forms of hierarchical power, which create the conditions for exploitation and oppression.

The Anarchist FAQ is a great place to start, it will answer any question you have pretty much. Libcom also has loads of anarchists writings that you can look at. Anarchistblackcat is a good place for discussion of anarchism and anarchist ideas.

Anarchism really only has two broad camps, those that believe in building large mass social movements from the working class to overthrow our oppressors and those that reject organization, working class politics and, depending on the loony, reject technology. Now amongst those two camps you have lots of sub groupings, but these are mostly minimal disagreements. An anarcho communist group and an anarcho syndicalist union often work together.

How is Trotskyism different from Stalinism?

Well Trotsky lost his battle with Stalin over control over the Soviet Union and he had to justify why he was better. the end result was that authoritarian state socialism is fine, but Stalin took it so far that it became an oppressive "deformed worker's state". Better than capitalism, but not a whole lot better.

What would a truely socialist/anarchist/communist world look like?

Well I would assume that you would have a world where workplace assemblies and community assemblies made all major political/economic decisions. Technology would be harnessed to eliminate as much rote and menial labor as possible, freeing us to spend the majority of our time in interesting, liberating labor that we enjoy. Any shit work left we would assign like family chores ie everyone does their share of it. Though of course we'd probably try to make it a lot more fun than chores today!

I am not really committed to any ideology, but I want to learn as much as I can, hope these are not stupid questions...

Not at all. Though you should know that anarchism isn't so much a set ideology as a rough outline of beliefs and practices. Its always flexible to change and inclusion of new ideas and developments.

[aussiestalinist]

How is Trotskyism different from Stalinism?

Trotskyism is counter revolutionary and Trotsky was really a agent for the international bourgeoisie-nerds. Trotsky was in league with the fascists i.e he was a social fascist. He voiced lots of opposition to the Soviet Stalin government in the 20's and 30's. He was opposed to collective ownserhip of the farms and to the five year plans Stalin started.

deformed worker's state

That is a total bull shit. what are you? a trotsky.

[BIG BROTHER]

Im fairly new to this, and I have read up a bit online but I would like to know from the horses mouth so to speak.

What is anarchism, and why do there seem to be so many different types?

How is Trotskyism different from Stalinism?

What would a truely socialist/anarchist/communist world look like?

I am not really committed to any ideology, but I want to learn as much as I can, hope these are not stupid questions...

well, i'm not the best guy to answer this, but here it goes:

anarchism is pretty much an ideology(and for some a way of life too) that oposes the goverment, and hierachy because they are seen as tools for opression.

Trotskyism is the continuation of marxism lennism acording to the ideas of Trotsky who was against burocrazitation, and stalinism among other things.

Stalinism is a term used by trotskyists to refer to the type of policies made by stalin.

[communard resolution]

Trotskyism is counter revolutionary

This is a matter of opinion and hardly a definition of Trotskyism.

Trotsky was really a agent for the international bourgeoisie-nerds

See above.

Trotsky was in league with the fascists

See above.

he was a social fascist

Honestly: do you know what fascism means or are you just parroting something you picked up somewhere?

He voiced lots of opposition to the Soviet Stalin government in the 20's and 30's. He was opposed to collective ownserhip of the farms and to the five year plans Stalin started.

This is the only bit that you should have posted in this particular thread as it contains facts rather than personal opinions.

[aussiestalinist]

This is the only bit that you should have posted in this particular thread as it contains facts rather than personal opinions.

My god your arrogant. Go get deported.

[communard resolution]

My god your arrogant. Go get deported.

You go get deported to Goli Otok!

[aussiestalinist]

You go get deported to Goli Otok!

No, the Simpson Desert

[communard resolution]

Haha! Okay then, sorry if I sounded patronizing, dude.

[Dros]

How is Trotskyism different from Stalinism?

Trotskyism is the theory advanced by Leon Trotsky in opposition to Stalin and also to Lenin. It involves a number of things but basically, Trotskyists believe that the USSR became a degenerate worker's state and was overcome with and taken over by a bureaucratic cast. They also oppose the efforts of Stalin to build socialism in the USSR on the grounds that socialism could not be built in one country.

I disagree with all of this and I see these claims as rather baseless. Trotskyism as a tendency is in a lot of ways (I'm gonna take shit for this and I'm not trying to insult the Trots or anything) similar to Menshevism (the theory of Martov, a negation of Lenin's Vanguard Party theory) and Liberalism in terms of the world outlook. I don't see Trotskyism being grounded in any kind of materialism (Marxist analysis) but more generally in idealism (the belief that ideas define reality instead of other way around) and economism (we should try and get a lot of members and focus on narrow short term goals by participating in the labor movement and focusing on labor style reforms instead of Communist revolution).

I used to be a Trot and so I repeat again, I mean no disrespect to the Trotskyists.

[nvm]

Originally Posted by Revolutiondownunder
How is Trotskyism different from Stalinism?

Trotskyism , being the continuation of Marxism-Leninism advocates democratic workers control with elected and recallable officials. Trotskyists critically supported the Soviet Union and other degenerated workers state, in opposition to Stalinists that thought that all was fine and working well in the Soviet Union.
Trotskyists opposed and still oppose the bureaucratic caste that developed in degenerated or deformed workers states and always push for workers control.
They are also internationalists advocating international revolution rather than socialism in one country which history proved that it doesn't work, although if circumstances bring socialism in only one country because something went terribly wrong we build socialism in one country while pushing to "export" the revolution in other countries.
An example that shows the differentiation of Trotsky and stalin was the collectivization in the Soviet union. While Trotsky advocated the voluntary collectivization of the farmers from 1923-1928 , until he got exiled by the Stalinist "democracy", Stalin was moving left and right in that time. So while until 1928 he opposed collectivization in 1929 he decided to collectivize the farms. So he sent...the Red Army to forcefully collectivize EVERYTHING. Of course the farmers reacted and killed half of their cattle and sold secretly their crops before the Army came. So that resulted to the Holodomor where millions died from starvation. This is a big difference in tactics, understanding and analysis.
Another thing is that while Lenin and Trotsky wanted fractions inside the party after the period of "war communism" , when fractions were banned as a necessary evil, Stalin opposed fractionism and democracy inside the party. So instead of ideas, policies etc going from below to above as Lenin and Trotsky wanted , they were going from above(the bureaucrats) , to below (the people) . If you had different ideas on how to achieve socialism you were sent to a gulag for example, or exiled , or shot.
Btw something that Trotsky predicted in 1936(!!) was that either in the Soviet Union there is going to be a revolution by the people so that the power will return to the people and the Soviet Union is going to return to the ideas of Lenin, or the bureaucrats are going to sell out socialism in order to serve their own interests. The second unfortunately happened which proves though Trotskys superior Marxist-Leninist understanding and analysis , which of course Stalin did not have as he wasn't a Marxist-Leninist.
For more info about Trotsky go on
www.trotsky.net

for more info about what Lenin and Trotsky stood for read "Lenin and Trotsky , what they really stood for" by Ted Grant and Alan Woods.
For more info about the differences between Stalin and Trotsky read "the revolution betrayed" by Leon Trotsky

[leftspot]

My two cents on these questions:

What is anarchism, and why do there seem to be so many different types?

Anarchism is an ideology that is against all authority relationships. Anarchism's main difference with socialists and communists is that anarchists think it's possible to go directly from capitalism to anarchism -- to abolish the state immediately. Whereas socialists and communists see the need for a transitional socialist state for the period between capitalism and communism. There are so many different types of anarchists in my opinion because there's really no coherent body of theory that defines "anarchism" in the same way that there can be said to be a coherent body of principles that are the fundamentals of Marxism. Anarchism is really more of an idea or a stance that can be summed up in one phrase -- opposition to all authority. Marxism on the other hand is a more developed and complex body of theory. So individuals or small groups of anarchists interpret the basic "anti-authoritarianism" in very different ways, which expresses itself in lots of small anarchist groupings with a lot of differing politics.

How is Trotskyism different from Stalinism?

drosera99 already answered this in a way that I agree with. I would just add that Trotskyism and Stalininsm (i.e. Leninism, since there really is no defining body of theory known as Stalinism) should not just be evaluated in the realm of ideas, where you pick the one that had ideas that sound prettier or cooler. Instead we have to look at which one's theory and practice led to revolutionary advances, and which one didn't. No Trotskyist party has ever led a revolution anywhere on the planet ever. Meanwhile all the revolutions led by communist forces have been led by Marxist-Leninists (Russia, China, Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, etc). It's as simple as that for me -- Trotskyists and anarchists have not been able to win a revolution anywhere ever. Whereas Marxist-Leninists have won many revolutions. So Trotskyists and anarchists have all kinds of criticisms of the practice of Marxist-Leninists in power. But that's so smug and easy -- because Trotskyists and anarchists have no comparable practice in power to compare to. Marxism-Leninism has proven to be the theory that when put into practice and developed according to local conditions, can lead to revolution. After 100 years of trying, anarchists and Trotskyists haven't been able to do it.

[nvm]

I would just add that Trotskyism and Stalininsm (i.e. Leninism, since there really is no defining body of theory known as Stalinism) should not just be evaluated in the realm of ideas, where you pick the one that had ideas that sound prettier or cooler.

Theory just as important as practice. You have a theory you put it into practice , then you go back to your theory see what needs improvement go again into practice etc. It is a dialectical process. If you deny that you are not a Marxist.

. Instead we have to look at which one's theory and practice led to revolutionary advances, and which one didn't. No Trotskyist party has ever led a revolution anywhere on the planet ever. Meanwhile all the revolutions led by communist forces have been led by Marxist-Leninists (Russia, China, Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, etc). It's as simple as that for me

The revolution in Russia. Yes it has been led by Marxist - Leninists. Lenin and Trotsky! Trotsky was a Marxist Leninist during his life, but the Trotskyist groups took that word which was used prejoratively and adopted it in order to differentiate themselves from the Stalinists, which called themselves Marxist-Leninists. So essentialy original Marxism-Leninism= Trotskyism today. So here's one revolution by original Marxist Leninists or Trotskyists as we know them today.

China:Mao developed a new theory MAoism which does not correspond neither to the original Marxism-Leninism(modern Trotskyism) nor deformed Marxism - Leninism(Stalinism). So It was not a Marxist-Leninist revolution.

Cuba: Castro in the beggining was a bourgeois democrat, that only wanted to liberate Cuba from Batista's dictatorship. He was not a Marxist-Leninist.
As about successes in the world revolution, Stalinism has none. As all the Stalinist states collapsed as predicted by Trotsky due to their bureaucratic and degenerated nature. So If i was a stalinist I would not brag about my historical achievements because there are none.
Was Stalin mentioned in any book about the October Revolution? Yes , one time in a list of names and another in his auto-biography! Other than that he had no mentions because he had a very small role. Trotsky was second only after Lenin in the revolution.

After 100 years of trying, anarchists and Trotskyists haven't been able to do it

First of all anarchists have made 2 revolutions. One with Makno and one in Spain where the Stalinists betrayed once again the workers and played a major role in the defeat of the revolutionaries.

At the end it doesn't matter how many revolutions you made but in how many you succeeded and didn't go back to capitalism. So although the Stalinists had a successfull revolution at their hands due mainly to Lenin and Trotsky they blew it.

leftspot history is not that simple.
The collapse of Stalinism makes it certainly a wrong idea on how should we build socialism.

[dirtycommiebastard]

I don't see Trotskyism being grounded in any kind of materialism (Marxist analysis) but more generally in idealism (the belief that ideas define reality instead of other way around)

and economism (we should try and get a lot of members and focus on narrow short term goals by participating in the labor movement and focusing on labor style reforms instead of Communist revolution).

So how is this idealism, in your opinion?

I think it is the best approach. Trotskyists realize that revolution is not attained by crying Revolution in the streets and denouncing worker's actions, but by working alongside the proletariat and supporting their demands, whether they be small reforms or not. (See Minimum and Maximum Program in Trotsky's Transitional Program)

Unlike, other groups, the Trotskyists have the least sectarian approach to the labour movement as they do not denounce workers as 'bourgeoisified' just for being members of unions.

Yes, they do make short term goals, based on the consciousness of the labour movement, and from there, do find the most advanced layers and try to win them over to revolutionary theory. This is how the vanguard is created, and not by announcing the creation of the 'Revolutionary Party' that consists of two men and their dog and expect the workers to come to them.

[Dros]

Trotskyism , being the continuation of Marxism-Leninism

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. "Marxism-Leninism" was a term coined by Stalin to describe his "version" (that is, the correct one) of Lenin's ideas. Trotsky always referred to his beliefs (later to be called Trotskyism) as "Bolshevik Leninism". He never claimed to have anything to do with Marxism-Leninism.

So how is this idealism, in your opinion?

In a lot of ways, Trotskyism seems more interested in the idea of revolution. A perfect example of this is the theory of "Permanent Revolution", which in complete oppostion to Leninism, poses the development of socialism in one country impossible. This completely fails to recognize the fact that capitalist and imperialist production and exchange on a global level leads to uneven development throughout the capitalist world which in turn means that the potential for a revolution to occur at any one time will only exist within defined and non-global areas. That is, there is no conceivable circumstance where the entire world will have a revolution at the same time. Trotskyism posits that in these instances, where a country can have a revolution, they should sit back and wait for the rest to get ready before actually building socialism. This is totally opposed to the Marxist-Leninist concept of building socialism in one country. This theory (socialism in one country), is not a negation of internationalism, but rather the scientific recognition of the actuality of capitalism.

[MaverickChaos]

Trotskyism is counter revolutionary and Trotsky was really a agent for the international bourgeoisie-nerds. Trotsky was in league with the fascists i.e he was a social fascist. He voiced lots of opposition to the Soviet Stalin government in the 20's and 30's. He was opposed to collective ownserhip of the farms and to the five year plans Stalin started.



That is a total bull shit. what are you? a trotsky.

Wasn't it Trotsky who created the Five Year Plans? I know it was Stalin who introduced them, but I thought he simply stole them from Trotsky.

[Dros]

Wasn't it Trotsky who created the Five Year Plans? I know it was Stalin who introduced them, but I thought he simply stole them from Trotsky.

How do you steal an idea in a democratic society?

And Trotsky originally wanted to not even try to develop socialism in the USSR. Then when he was defeated, he suggested rapid industrialization. Then after he was defeated again by the CC of the CPSU, he criticized Stalin for rapidly industrializing the country!

Did someone say opportunism...

[welshboy]

What is anarchism, and why do there seem to be so many different types?

Anarchists, for the most part, believe in building the necessary forms and structures to replace capitalism in the here and now. We don't as a lot of the left like to claim believe that we can transform from a capitalist society to a communist society over night. We need to create the new society within the shell of the old, to paraphrase.
It is true that there are many trends within Anarchism though the dominant, and most coherent two, Anarchist-Communism and Anarcho-Syndicalism have much and common and only really disagree upon tactics.
No form of Anarchism however believes that giving power to a so-called vanguard party will lead to anything more than barbarity and a new class system as we have seen in the past.

What would a truely socialist/anarchist/communist world look like?

Now that one's debatable. In my ever so humble opinion we would see workplace and community committee's as the local organizational form. These committee's would be made up of all who wished to be involved within the community/workplace. For organization over a larger area these committee's would send delegates who would have to follow a strict mandate to larger regional committee's. The delegate would have to follow this mandate and could be recalled and replaced at any time.
This would allow for maximum participation and control over our workplaces and homes.
Obviously there is a hell of a lot more to it than that but it's the best I can do in a paragraph.

*prepares to be shot down from all sides*