This is a difficult poll to vote in because, let's be frank, he was neither.
they are mainly socialistic
he was a nazis wet dream
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Nietzsche, ours or theirs?
so after many failed attempts to get Nietzsche on the menu here i decided to try again,
anybody who gives detrement to a legend must explain themselves, i.e. no unfounded 'he was a nazi' comments just coz that is what you have heard,
ya'll think his ideas are socialist for equality, antitheism etc or do you think him a fore-father Nazism as he has been labelled (but so have many philiosphers; Kant for instance)
discuss
This is a difficult poll to vote in because, let's be frank, he was neither.
"Events have their own logic, even when human beings do not." - Rosa Luxemburg
"There are decades when nothing happens; and there are weeks when decades happen." - Lenin
Neither. He was a loony.
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Originally Posted by Citizen ZeroYeah, neither. He had some ideas that could be interpreted as socialistic, and some that could be interpreted as fascistic. But his sister was the one who pushed the fascistic aspects (and the so called anti-Semitic aspects as well).Originally Posted by NoXion
Just because a person is/was anti-theistic, doesn't make them socialistic. Indeed, As I understand it, Nietzsche was anti-theistic because of his individualism. He wanted people to take responsibility for themselves, and for their own actions. (In that regard you could say that he was a fore-runner of existentialism. Which a quick look at Wikipedia, and yes they do say something like that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism .)
well slave morality isn't really a socialist idea.....
the working class and the employing class have nothing in common
Economic Left/Right:-10.00Social Libertarian/Authoritarian:-9.54
Vegan-Anarchist-Communist
I wouldn't say any of his ideas were fascist in nature. He was very individualist. Sortof like Max Stirner. He was amazing.
And thus I clothe my naked villainy with old ends, stolen forth from holy writ, and seem a saint, when most I play the devil.
He was crass, with little interest in altruism or social responsibility. He was a right-wing style individualist, even though he had some interesting existential ideas.
I don't think he was a pre-nazi, but I do think he has more compatibility with fascist, rather than socialist ideals.
This. Although I'll add in that he has some of the best quotes one could ever ask for, which redeems him a little in my eyes. And a killer 'tasch.Originally Posted by NoXion
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day. - Douglas Adams
Political Compass: -9.62, -8.21
I think many of his ideas were important as a foundation for later works, but anyone who reads Nietzsche and stops there is missing out on a lot.
I seriously don't understand why some people here likw Nietzsche. His ideas are horrible, before his sister twisted some of them.
the working class and the employing class have nothing in common
Economic Left/Right:-10.00Social Libertarian/Authoritarian:-9.54
Vegan-Anarchist-Communist
He's neither.
Neitzsche theory of man freeing himself from the bounds of society suits socialist ideas, reject the binds that mankind has made for ourselves such as religion and destroying the morality of willingly submitting to opressive authorities due to traditionalist ideas,
the idea of 'super man' is not based on racial eugenics as often suggested but rather on the progression of humans intelligence, and freedom from opression, (Hegal also said that all history is the progesssion of the idea of freedom)
this seems rather socialist to me,
and yes he did have mental illness but i do not think this makes him anyless of a thinker i think it makes you intolerant, "i think what he says is wrong as they are disabled" is hardly socialist maybe you should be introspectivly critical before you start in others...
he was still a man of his times, as were many philoposhpers and so they become martyrs of their own ideas (i rememer reading on here Engels was homophobic and everybody jumped in to defend him saying if he were alive to day he wouldnt be for an example that nobodies ideas are perfectly socialist) but he still expressed ideas relevant to socialism
as for social responsibility, his ideas freedom of man to be human away from external moral codes would seem to apply to anarchism to me, but what do i know of that..
and ergo he is not just a loony or a proto nazi, and you are all wrong, lulz
EDIT: members of the HPG (especially but not exclusivly) who expressed 'he is a looney' as an argument should be ashamed of their own eugenically based thoughts on fellow humans)
Last edited by Holden Caulfield; 21st May 2008 at 10:56.
No, I'd argue that socialists are interested in making society more human so that individuals can live together in mutual solidarity. We are not interested in freeing the individual from society. It's a false dichotomy: there is no individuality without society.
"Events have their own logic, even when human beings do not." - Rosa Luxemburg
"There are decades when nothing happens; and there are weeks when decades happen." - Lenin
the bounds of the society he is trapped in, in the case of 'Zarathusa' an ignorant religious one, in ours an intolerant opressive capitalist one,
obviously im not saying i support or Nietzsche says society needs removed or destroyed rather tailored to be more human and freer for all,
He is theirs.....and that says a lot about what their intellectuals look like
"Dixi et salvavi animam meam" - quoted by Marx
"Things rarely work out well if one aims at 'moderation'..." - Engels
"By and by we heare newes of shipwrack in the same place, then we are too blame if we accept it not for a Rock." Sir Philip Sydney
"The most to be hoped for by groups who claim to belong to the Marxist succession (...) is for them to serve as a hyphen between past and future....nothing can be held sacred – everything is called into question. Only after having been put through such a crucible could socialism conceivably re-emerge as a viable doctrine and plan of action." - Van Heijenoort
His ideas point more in the direction of the right wing Libertarianism that appeared in the twentieth century.
He wasn't a Nazi, but he was sure as hell not a socialist either.
the analogy of the three metamorphisis of being a camel (worker) then a lion (revolutionary) would seem to infer revolutionary ideals to free humans from opression and ignorance,
(the third stage is to be a child to rebuild and start anew btw)
He wrote some good stuff, and some shit.
I don't think he's 'either'. He belongs to no one but himself.
His ideas...well, they belong to his ego.
"The sun shines. To hell with everything else!" - Stephen Fry
"As the world of the spectacle extends its reign it approaches the climax of its offensive, provoking new resistances everywhere. These resistances are very little known precisely because the reigning spectacle is designed to present an omnipresent hypnotic image of unanimous submission. But they do exist and are spreading.", The Bad Days Will End.
"(The) working class exists and struggles in all countries, and has the same enemies in all countries – the police, the army, the unions, nationalism, and the fake ‘socialism’ of the bourgeois left. It shows that the conditions for a worldwide revolution are ripening everywhere today. It shows that workers and revolutionaries are not passive spectators of inter-imperialist conflicts: they have a camp to choose, the camp of the proletarian struggle against all the factions of the bourgeoisie and all imperialisms." -ICC, Nation or Class?
yeah he also says about slaves not having the right to fulfil their appartently natural desire for power. Real socialist.
the working class and the employing class have nothing in common
Economic Left/Right:-10.00Social Libertarian/Authoritarian:-9.54
Vegan-Anarchist-Communist
He was neither yet both.
Sounds like an old alchemical allegory.
