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In the "Long Live Stalin!" thread, Malte
and some others are desperately trying
to change the topic. Now Malte says,
"Maoist, I know I can't really accuse you that, but how came that so many Maoists are turning Nazi's? Especially in Germany, some leading Neo-Nazi's were Maoists before."
maoist3 replies for the Maoist Internationalist Movement:
How many are we talking about? In February and
March 2002, it came to light that there were so many
government agents in the National Democratic Party
(neo-Nazis) that they were setting each other up
for trials. The most militant Nazi material turns out
to be written by government agents. The top leadership
was so infiltrated numerically that it was difficult to
tell what the party would be without the government agents.
I read that 40% of the leaders were now known
to have been agents from various agencies.
Recycling of government agents is the norm. Infiltrate
one, then another group.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/st...,711642,00.html
Now I would like to address why Malte does this.
That is the fact that it was the Stalin supporters who
took down Hitler--because
the West did so little of the actual fighting, and instead
all of Europe quickly capitulated to Hitler, thanks to the
general range of mushy socialist, social-democratic and other Nazi-symp views that broke the
backbone of the potential resistance. So now these mushy socialists
and decadent imperialism-supporters need to rewrite
World War II to whitewash their own roles.
They came up with "totalitarianism is a
repressive system that cannot change without
outside armed intervention." That turned out
wrong when the Soviet Union collapsed.
The mushy socialists said that communism
caused Nazism by threatening the system. Now that
communism is supposedly "dead," who are they
going to blame the rise of Neo-Nazism on? Is it not
becoming clearer and clearer that what Stalin said
was right all along, that Nazism was a product of
decadent imperialism?
Vox is here spouting Michael Harrington. Instead of pointing out
that Harrington's organization had fraternal ties to Mitterand and the Austrian Social Democrats,
Malte attacks us Stalin-supporters.
Mitterand was not just some infiltrator cop or
neo-Nazi punk. He was an official in a Nazi collaborator
regime in France during World War II.
As time goes on, Stalin's "social-fascist" thesis only receives further vindication. As we reported in MIM Notes 93, it turns out that social-democratic president of France for 14 years Francois Mitterand served as an official in the Nazi collaborator Vichy government, received a medal for it in 1943 and stayed friends with the police chief of that regime till the bitter end. It goes to show what kind of material these social- democrats are.
In MIM Notes 209, we explained how the Wall Street Journal reported the Austrian Social-Democratic Party's first-ever admission of ties to the Nazi party during the war and even after it. This was April, 2000. It took till the year 2000 for the social-democrats and bourgeois press to admit it, but Stalin was correct already from 1928-1934 (on how worthless the social-democrats were in fighting fascism) and also in 1939 for breaking with them.
Vox and others on this list need to vet their own
ties to that, but instead Malte tries to turn good into
bad and bad into good in a typically post-modern
way by attacking us pro-Stalin supporters for the
scourge we ended and that they are allowing rebirth of.
Maoist Internationalist Movement
http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM
yep, the NPD is exactly what I'm talking about. Horst Mahler, one of their leaders and their first lawyer and without question not an agent, was a Maoist and RAF terrorist. Another name: Christian Worch, another leading neo-nazi of Germany and former Maoist.
Don't come with your own historical truth here, accept the facts and the simularities of your ideologies. Same pro-totalitarism, same volkish thinking, and often same anti-semitism.
"The proletariat, when it seizes power [...] should and must at once undertake socialist measures in the most energetic, unyielding and unhesitant fashion, in other words, exercise a dictatorship, but a dictatorship of the CLASS, not of a party or of a clique -- dictatorship of the class, that means in the broadest possible form on the basis of the most active, unlimited participation of the mass of the people, of unlimited democracy." - Rosa Luxemburg
"An Rhein und Ruhr marschieren wir. / Für unsere Freiheit kämpfen wir! / Den Streifendienst, schlagt ihn entzwei! / Edelweiß marschiert – Achtung – die Straße frei!"
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Maoist3, if you speak German read "Den Völkern Freiheit", large portions of it could be written by a Maoist, there's is a lot of Maoist rhetoric in it.
"The proletariat, when it seizes power [...] should and must at once undertake socialist measures in the most energetic, unyielding and unhesitant fashion, in other words, exercise a dictatorship, but a dictatorship of the CLASS, not of a party or of a clique -- dictatorship of the class, that means in the broadest possible form on the basis of the most active, unlimited participation of the mass of the people, of unlimited democracy." - Rosa Luxemburg
"An Rhein und Ruhr marschieren wir. / Für unsere Freiheit kämpfen wir! / Den Streifendienst, schlagt ihn entzwei! / Edelweiß marschiert – Achtung – die Straße frei!"
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For the record: I'm not a Social Democrat. I'm deeply despising todays Social Democrat parties, especially the German one.
"The proletariat, when it seizes power [...] should and must at once undertake socialist measures in the most energetic, unyielding and unhesitant fashion, in other words, exercise a dictatorship, but a dictatorship of the CLASS, not of a party or of a clique -- dictatorship of the class, that means in the broadest possible form on the basis of the most active, unlimited participation of the mass of the people, of unlimited democracy." - Rosa Luxemburg
"An Rhein und Ruhr marschieren wir. / Für unsere Freiheit kämpfen wir! / Den Streifendienst, schlagt ihn entzwei! / Edelweiß marschiert – Achtung – die Straße frei!"
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Another point for the record: I'm deeply gratefull that Stalin's red army stopped the hordes of Hitler at Stalingrad. Unfortunately it was the only good thing that Stalin did.
"The proletariat, when it seizes power [...] should and must at once undertake socialist measures in the most energetic, unyielding and unhesitant fashion, in other words, exercise a dictatorship, but a dictatorship of the CLASS, not of a party or of a clique -- dictatorship of the class, that means in the broadest possible form on the basis of the most active, unlimited participation of the mass of the people, of unlimited democracy." - Rosa Luxemburg
"An Rhein und Ruhr marschieren wir. / Für unsere Freiheit kämpfen wir! / Den Streifendienst, schlagt ihn entzwei! / Edelweiß marschiert – Achtung – die Straße frei!"
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Maoist,
You're an idiot.
Bye.
i must say that i read m.i.m program and its sound like m.i.m is more a cult than an ideological organization
hear hear, michael
Direct action is key- don't just sit at your computer and rant at leftists you disagree with slightly- get out there and DO IT. Organize. Change your life, and change the lives of those around you. The reason the waterheads are still in power is because we aren't being loud enough.
"Vox is here spouting Michael Harrington. Instead of pointing out
that Harrington's organization had fraternal ties to Mitterand and the Austrian Social Democrats,
Malte attacks us Stalin-supporters."
Actually, what I did was present an analysis of Stalinism that shows, quite clearly I think, that it is anti-Marxist. Maoist3 called this changing the subject, though I think it's right ON subject and then attacked Harrington as a person, for he could not apparently refute the argument that was set forth.
Maoist3 has shown himself to be unable to rationally defend the ideology he claims to support.
I think that speaks for itself.
vox
Economists have provided capitalists with a comforting concept called the "free market." It does not describe any part of reality, at any place or time. It's a mantra conveniently invoked when it is proposed that government do something the faithful don't like, and just as conveniently ignored whenever they want government to do something for them.
well as long as we talk about tibet: maoism=nazism!!!
Lieber Malte,
in einem anderen Thread von dir las ich das Du hier für die PDS Werbung machst, das sei ja Realpolitik. Für eine Partei die für Sozialabbau und Abschiebungen in Berlin und anderswo mit beteiligt ist. Und hier betreibts Du die Verherrlichung von Che, ein Mann der mit der Waffe in der Hand Revolution machen wollte und viel von Mao hielt!
Außerdem war in den 70er Jahren nicht nur Worch maoistisch angehaucht, was übrigends eigentlich nur ein Gerücht ist, beweise doch mal, was für maoistische Aktivitäten hat er den entfaltet? In den 70er sind Massenhaft Trotzkisten und Sozialisten zur maoistischen KPD/ML übergelaufen. Finde ich scheisse von Dir das Du Worch anfügst und Maoisten mit Nazis gleich setzt. Viel Ahnung scheinst Du sowieso nicht zu haben.
\"Weapons are an important factor in war, but not the decisive factor; it is people not things, that are decisive.\" - Mao Tse-tung, \"On Protracted War\"
maoist3 replies:
Vox's idea of ad hominem is talking about politics.
I am here talking about politics. Vox may be here
talking about the words he sees swirling in his
navel. I offered him that he was talking about Marxology, not Marxism.
Vox, you are still on the spot in this thread. If you
do not disown Mitterand, the Austrian social-democrats etc.,
it's not that you are being attacked ad hominem:
Your line is being exposed. Figure out the difference.
If you want to quote Harrington, Hitler and Huntington
against me, then go ahead, but call it by its proper name--"Marxology." You may not be interested
in politics, but others of us here are interested in who
said what and more importantly, who did what.
(Edited by maoist3 at 1:21 am on Aug. 17, 2002)
Maoist Internationalist Movement
http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM
why does my favorite cult member cant talk normal and always said "maoist3 replies"?
Still no response from maoist3. Still no rebuttal. Now he's accusing me of quoting Hitler!
Yep. My mind is made up about. Maoist3's post seem to be nothing but the most vulgar, dogmatic Marxism, and when that doesn't work, avoid the issue. (Reminder for everyone: the issue is that anti-Marxist stance of Stalin.)
vox
Economists have provided capitalists with a comforting concept called the "free market." It does not describe any part of reality, at any place or time. It's a mantra conveniently invoked when it is proposed that government do something the faithful don't like, and just as conveniently ignored whenever they want government to do something for them.
Um das mal klarzustellen: Ich hab nix mit der PDS am Hut und stimme dir sogar zu was die PDS angeht. Trotzdem ist sie für mich das weitaus geringste Übel, wenn wählen, dann PDS.
Aussedem setze ich Maoisten nicht mit Nazis gleich, ich hab nur auf ideologische Gemeinsamkeiten hingewiesen, was ja wohl schwer von der Hand zu weisen ist.
"The proletariat, when it seizes power [...] should and must at once undertake socialist measures in the most energetic, unyielding and unhesitant fashion, in other words, exercise a dictatorship, but a dictatorship of the CLASS, not of a party or of a clique -- dictatorship of the class, that means in the broadest possible form on the basis of the most active, unlimited participation of the mass of the people, of unlimited democracy." - Rosa Luxemburg
"An Rhein und Ruhr marschieren wir. / Für unsere Freiheit kämpfen wir! / Den Streifendienst, schlagt ihn entzwei! / Edelweiß marschiert – Achtung – die Straße frei!"
Support RevLeft! Donate now!
