From the time mankind walked out of the Great Rift Valley we've been at each other's throats. The only way we won't be is if we find some new extraterrestrial enemy to focus our anger toward.
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Americans who vote for Democrats and Republicans are indirectly guilty of mass murder
Everybody knows the policies of these two parties. No feigning ignorance. Americans who vote for Democrats and Republicans are complicit with murderous imperialist wars. The American people are marginalized and this ruling elite in no way represents them, but those who go to the voting stations to actively support the killers, purely out of free will, are guilty.
Look at what you're supporting
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7370502.stm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/iraq
Justify your actions
From the time mankind walked out of the Great Rift Valley we've been at each other's throats. The only way we won't be is if we find some new extraterrestrial enemy to focus our anger toward.
It's easy to see
Evil as entity
Not as condition
Inside you and me
-Eugene Hutz
Your premises are faulty.
You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
# # #
Je suis Marxiste, tendance Groucho
I dunno about that. I've never physically harmed anyone or voted for a politician to do it for me.
Last edited by Dr. Rosenpenis; 2nd May 2008 at 02:31.
How is that?
So, if i decide to vote Green or whatever, and McCain gets elected, how is it that I'm not responsible for that? If you stay hope and feel superior, are you not responsible for what happens? Not voting is an action, there are still consequences. I *loathe* the two party system - but I can't allow that nasty little neocon TOAD to become president.
The adult response is to do the best you can with what you have. It certainly beats flipping off the man and feeling self-righteous.
I agree with the sentence in the subject header.
Not only guilty of murder, but also guilty of the hunger of children, unnecessary disease, illiteracy, poor quality education, the domestic violence and abuse caused by poverty, polluted air and water and the waste of natural resources, and much more.
All of these social problems are caused by capitalism.
Those who vote for Democrats or Republicans share the guilt.
Because you didn't vote for a mass murderer.
Democrats are exactly just as bad where it matters.
Also if yo upay taxes your guilty, also if you buy stuff your guilty (most likely), pretty much if you eat too, because most likely that food has come from a source that exploits workers horrifically, (food industries notorious for that), so if you eat your guilty, if you pay taxes your killing children, so go to jail or be a killer. OH also if you have a retirement plan that has mutual funds, you are responsible for every coorporation included in that mutual fund, if one happends to be military related, MURDERER, and even if they are not, your an exploiter.
Actually if you don't vote, what ever politician is elected is your responsibility, because you had a chance to help stop him.
People who vote in America don't have a choice, the choice is either don't vote, and get whatever comes, or vote, and try and get a preferible result.
Your Asshole logic makes no sense, and then saying Justify your actions after that, what a judgemental irrational asshole you are. Do you think this type of dickhead behavior is going to win people over to the left?
BTW, I don't vote. So I'm off the hook. But I do eat ... So, shame on me I'm sorry exploited farm workers, and starving people, I'm sorry.
If thats the case any one who votes anywhere is directly responsible for the state of their countires, most of which are just as bad as the United States, only other countires don't have the ability to destroy and pillage as much as the United States, its naive to think they would'nt if they could.
So lesson learned: leftists that make wide sweeping irrational asshole statements are dickheads and end up making a bad name for the radical left by being such.
Last edited by RGacky3; 2nd May 2008 at 04:29.
It's funny how defensive people get when you bring up this sort of thing. I suspect the problem is an unhealthy dose of blind patriotism.
Eating is not a choice. Paying taxes is not a choice either. Buying things is not a choice. To vote for for candidates of either of two parties, from dozens and dozens of others, makes you guilty. Guilty of not only complying with their murderous actions, but actively giving it support and helping it to stay in power and continue to conduct wars. And candidates you didn't vote for aren't your responsibility.
Not every other elected ruling party has been guilty of murdering millions of innocent people around the globe. Not all voters grant their support to candidates of parties which have revealed themselves to sponsor mass murder. And I think other countries do have the capacity to cause plenty more destruction and make much more wars if their governments were so inclined. Don't forget that out of roughly a dozen countries that possess the bomb, the US has been the only one to use it. It's net because your government can. It's because it wants to, and it has managed to get you to agree. Since you're not a child, I have no other choice but to hold you accountable. "You" in the plural sense, of course,
Last edited by Dr. Rosenpenis; 2nd May 2008 at 06:12.
So what exactly do you propose we do? I find it highly unlikely that doing absolutely nothing at all will prove particularly effective, so what's the alternative you're suggesting? I'm not being trite, I'm curious.
And thus I clothe my naked villainy with old ends, stolen forth from holy writ, and seem a saint, when most I play the devil.
You could (1) vote for anyone who isn't a Democrat or a Republican, (2) not vote at all or (3) get the fuck outta mah face.
heh, just kidding
But, to be honest, simply not voting sounds like a pretty good idea. I don't know what your party's or union's position is on things like this, but I suspect that any real leftist party would never have their members vote for a Democrat.
Typical Dr R charm.
I would take it a step further. If you even live in the US and know anything about US history and dont move, you are supporting terrorism on the world.
Isnt it a shame the people who understand that are usually the oppressed and couldnt move if they want to, because they are poor?
By having no family … I inherited the family of humanity.
By having no possessions … I have possessed all.
By rejecting the love of one … I received the love of all.
By surrendering my life to the revolution … I found eternal life.
“Revolutionary Suicide”
-Huey P. Newton
Yes you do, yes you do, and yes you do. You can grow, hunt, and forage your own food. You can choose to not give money to the government, doesn't mean they won't come after you. And you can choose to not buy things, you are not forced to buy things.
Then you have done nothing to help not get someone in office.
There sure are a lot of those. The problem is that there isn't dozens of others, there are two. Of course I am only taking about the US, don't know the situation in other countries.
Simply voting for them doesn't mean that you support everything they do, or that you really support anything they do. It could mean that you support one thing that they do that you strongly agree with, or that they don't support something that you strongly disagree with.
www.pamedia.com www.airsoftcore.com www.deadpress.org www.thehighroad.org www.a-human-right.com
V: “A building is nothing more than a symbol, as is the act of destroying it. Symbols are given power by people. A symbol, in and of itself is powerless, but with enough people behind it, blowing up a building can change the world.”
"The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete, but so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of man, that state is obsolete. A case to be filed under "M" for mankind—in the Twilight Zone."
RevMARKSman :P - "He googled "Jesus" and came up with all of freakazoid's posts."
Not voting isn't out of anyone's reach. In fact, some people might actually be too poor to vote. Couldn't afford the commute or the gas.
Living somewhere, like eating and paying taxes, isn't a choice. Well, not sometimes, at least. Nobody is complacent with a murderous regime if all they do is live in the country governed by those murderers. It's very different indeed from voting, which is the active backing of a politician. It's the political sponsorship.
In practice, people are forced to buy things. They are in no way at all forced to vote for Democratic or Republican candidates. Comparing the two things is ridiculous in the extreme.Originally Posted by freakazoid
You have also done nothing to put them in power. You have also not legitimized the electoral process by participating in it.Originally Posted by freakazoid
There are dozens of others in the United States and in any liberal democracy.Originally Posted by freakazoid
Fortunately, people don't vote for part of a candidate, they vote for all of it. "Well, on one hand he's a unscrupulously belligerent and murderous, a cold-blooded killer, but I do agree with his policy on education funding."Originally Posted by freakazoid
Like?
By not voting you haven't done anything to stop them.
You must be REALLY in support of there policy on education if you would vote for that person. That is why you weigh what they would do with your beliefs. People do vote for certain parts of what they say they are for. It would be pretty hard to find someone who believes in everything the candidate says they are for.
Two major parties, the only to that really matter in the process, thanks media,While there are other parties, they are so insignificant that they do not matter to the process, doesn't mean that you can't support them if they propose what you believe in. But out of all of those others, do you believe in everything that they support? Because if you don't then that must automatically mean that you support it to right?
www.pamedia.com www.airsoftcore.com www.deadpress.org www.thehighroad.org www.a-human-right.com
V: “A building is nothing more than a symbol, as is the act of destroying it. Symbols are given power by people. A symbol, in and of itself is powerless, but with enough people behind it, blowing up a building can change the world.”
"The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete, but so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of man, that state is obsolete. A case to be filed under "M" for mankind—in the Twilight Zone."
RevMARKSman :P - "He googled "Jesus" and came up with all of freakazoid's posts."
Because you attribute motive where none exists. Look at it this way: suppose your average American could choose between two scenarios in any given military conflict:
(A) Compliance with huge casualties.
(B) Compliance with few casualties.
You are suggesting that they deliberately choose (A), which I believe is wishful thinking on your part. In fact, Americans suffer great expense and loss to minimize casualties on all sides while achieving the given objective.
Now, in the specific case of Iraq, the objective was to topple Saddam's regime and establish a secularish liberalish democracy in its place. If this could have been accomplished with zero casualties, we would have accomplished it with zero casualties. Failing that, we have done just about everything in our power to achieve the objective with as few casualties as possible.
You might argue that it should have been obvious that at least some casualties would be necessary. But in this particular instance, there would have been casualties as a consequence of our decision no matter what decision we made, unless you're one of those fools who believes that life under Saddam was skittles and beer. We chose to pursue our objective, and people died. But if we would have chosen to not pursue our objective, people would have died. Maybe more. Definitely less justifiably.
Now we face a similar situation with Darfur. We can choose to intervene, which will certainly result in us having to kill people who try to kill us for intervening. Or we can not intervene, which will certainly result in people dieing that we could possible have saved. There is literally no option we have that will not leave us indirectly responsible for the deaths of at least thousands.
So you see, the false premise is that we had any obviously better alternatives. Perhaps, in a philosophical sense, we are less morally culpable for our failures to act than we are for our actions taken, but that's an argument best left to the ivory tower. In the real world, we often have to make a decision to act or not, knowing that in either case, people will die as the result of our choice.
Last edited by pusher robot; 2nd May 2008 at 07:48.
You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
# # #
Je suis Marxiste, tendance Groucho
Obviously Dr. Rosenpenis, you don't like in the United States.
No they arn't forced but they vote because they genuinely believe that one would do better than the other. What is rediculous to the extreme is calling people who vote murderers, and guilty of all the crimes of who they voted for. Its obvious you don't understand the sham that electoral politics is, and the complete lack of a real democracy in the United States and for that matter really any State around.
(1) Obviously you don't live in America
(2) thats a good option, however some people believe they can at least change minimally
(3) Not when you make such a statement as "If you vote democrat or republican you are a murderer."
Try go into your local bar, and tell everyone that if they voted, they are guilty of mass murder, and they are all killers, see how funny iy is when they get all defensive and see if you get out alive.
I don't vote, but I do get defensive when anyone says something as rediculous and inflametory as "If you voted republican or democrat you are a murderer" becaus its not only a rediculous statement its a strong accusation, it has nothign to do with patriotism at all.
What you are saying is like saying "Anyone who voted in the Soviet System when Stalin was in power is guilty of the mass murders in gulags." Youd find the same defensiveness if you said that.
So yeah, your an asshole.
