....I guess the phrase "I told you so" is in order. The inherent flaw in Capitalism is "GREED"...and the promotion of self-centered behaviours.
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Over the last few months the reputation of American capitalism has been sullied by massive corporate financial scandals.
To varying degrees the critics of capitalism claim that such crimes are the logical results of a system motivated by "greed", a sentiment oft expressed by many on this board. In response to this the defenders of capitalism often reply that capitalism is hardly to blame as it is an amoral force. The crimes are not indictments of capitalism, the responsibility rests solely on the moral failings of the criminal.
But the defenders and would be deposers of capitalism are both wrong. Capitalism is hardly amoral, its benefits being defined in terms of society's welfare; and capitalism is not motivated by "greed" but by cooperation.
Being that this is a topic I hope generates some discussion I'm going to presently leave my thoughts at this and wait for your opinions regarding the above.
....I guess the phrase "I told you so" is in order. The inherent flaw in Capitalism is "GREED"...and the promotion of self-centered behaviours.
One in...Soul
One in...Mind
One in...Fist
I agree with much of the capitalist arguments that you laid out. However, I think the rate determining step for America's descent toward socialism, now lies in the government's willingness to put such criminals behind bars. Over-regulation is not the anwser, enforcing the current laws protecting the public from such fraud would better serve the country. What good are more legalities be, when you are incapable or unwilling to use the existing laws? Heads should role and assets should be confiscated in this situation. I say that hesitantly, for I do not think the government should make forfeiture a common practice. There is no way these bastards should be allowed to get away unscathed. The shareholders of these companies ought to hire assassins, in the event that the government fails to serve it legitimate purpose. Take these guys out of the picture, by giving them jail time or dirt naps. They are worthless thieves, who are compromising the integrity of our wonderful economic system.
Capitalism is not to blame for the financial scandals, more the greed of individuals and their corporations. Greed exists in people, not in systems. To be honest, I think some people would be greedy regardless of what system they were under. The difference is, under certain systems they would not be able to express their greed.
<span style=\'font-family:Geneva\'><span style=\'color:red\'>SOUS LES PAVÉS, LA PLAGE!!</span></span>
"The difference is, under certain systems they would not be able to express their greed."
Har har. Do you really believe this?
Che Guevara wannabe
Yes. Anything intelligent to say??
<span style=\'font-family:Geneva\'><span style=\'color:red\'>SOUS LES PAVÉS, LA PLAGE!!</span></span>
the problem is that the laws aren't enforced enough.
Companies are constantly cheating the people and the country yet no one call attention to it until now.
For example do you think anything is going to happen to all the companies commiting tax fraud? Hell no.
This country is so quick to crack down on a couple of Rastas smoking weed yet these people get off scott free.
These people should have the law inforced on them for what they have done.
TO me this isn't even a capitalist/socialist issue. THis is an issue of the US not taking closer looks at what the companies are doing.
(Edited by Lardlad95 at 5:51 pm on July 9, 2002)
"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist." -- Hélder Pessoa Câmara
No, ID2002, did you read Earnests Post post? It has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with individuals and deciscions.
That would be like blaming cheyrnoble on communism.
Exactly, SN, This is good, it is an opportunity for corporate america to "clean house".
Point of acknowledgement: Although the media has put these recent events under a microscope, inflating their significance disproportionately, these companies in no way represent the vast majority of american businesses, large and small, that conduct themselves with the hihgest of moral standards and integrity beyond reproach, all while providing local and world communities with wanted and needed goods and services.
Not to put down Pres. Bush (though people must know I dislike him with a vengence.) However how does everyone feel about the fact that Bush is calling for tougher penalties for criminals whoo make these kind of buisness offenses
yet Bush was a director of Harken Energy Corp. And the Comapny hid 10 million dollars in loses by selling a subsidiary to a group of its own executives.
Nothing was done about this even after an investigation to the company or Bush who was part of the companies audit comitte and on the board during the illegal transaction.
A seperate investigation was launched against Bush involving a stock trade investigation it was found that he had discloused Harken stock later than law allowed on four occasions.
Bush gave answers that avoided the questions asked by reporters.
Now doesn't it seem a little bit hypocritical of him to do this when by his new plan he and several other should be in jail right now?
"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist." -- Hélder Pessoa Câmara
What I find most amusing is that the replys to my post were generally of the type I expect them to be.
ID2002's comment was the typical leftist fare that "greed" is inherently promoted byt capitalism, and CI, thought I agree with you that the ultimately responsibility falls upon individuals and not systems, I think it may well be time for a change, or at least a clarification of the underlying ideology of capitalism.
If you are a supporter of capitalism you are no doubt familiar with the claim that the market and its forces are amoral and so exculpable when they are abused by individuals,as is presently the case with the scandals we are witnessing. This claim to amorality is often a major critique by those who assail capitalism with the supposed superior morality of their systems, namely or comrades on this site. The truth is that while we may perceive this amorality as a strength of capitalism, a system which gives US, people, the freedom to do Good and Bad; it may very well be a weakness. Characterizing capitalism as amoral gives those whose primary motivation IS greed the great philosophical excuse for their actions. Characterizing capitalism as amoral gives capitalism over to those who would abuse it.
We are at a point in history in which the capitalist system has no clear competitors, with the fall of the Soviet Union socialist have been left reeling in defeat, trying to regroup, as you can well see, through a perverse and illogical fusion of Eco-racial-marxists theories that hardly stand up to the lightest scrutiny. So as a supporter of capitalism it should be puzzling to read heavy criticisms of the system in mainstream outlets like the NYTimes and CNN. Moreover as Stormin Normin likes to point out, it should be frightening to see the traditional civil liberties which support and are necessary for capitalism to thrive being slowly taken away by government's natural tendency to grow. Capitalism, it seems, remains in danger of disappearing, more importantly it remains in danger of being rejected by the people who need it the most, those in the third world.
To combat these possible dangers the defenders of capitalism should rethink the nature of their system. While the market may very well be ammoral, capitalism as the system that controls it is not. Far from ammoral capitalism is based on a clear moral vision. From John Locke to Adam Smith to John Stuart Mill to John Maynard Keynes and Robert Novak, capitalism captures the values of JUSTICE, LIBERTY, COOPERATION, and COMMONWEALTH. Through its passive benevolent nature capitalism has housed, clothed, fed and freed more people than any other idea prior to it, and rather than dismiss it as amoral we should praise it as ultimately moral.
Of course I will explain my opinions more clearly later, but after my previous experiences on this site I'm going to try to keep most posts brevious in nature. So I'll wait for your feedback first. Thanks. Later.
