American Presidential Voting

[camilo]

I have been struggling with the decision of voting in the upcoming primary in my state. Obviously no candidate will offer the views I have as a blooming Marxist (specifically focusing on Comandante Guevara's views on the concept). I know that any candidate will always work toward United States imperialism (as it is best for the country they will be running). At this time I am leaning toward voting, and with that vote using it on Barack Obama. Unfortunately, my original choice of candidate Jon Ewdwards has dropped out (he held the most passionate and reform filled views on dealing with the country's poor). I feel that it wouldn't prove anything or serve a purpose to not vote considering the country will move on unaffected. As long as my vote could possibly improve working conditions for middle class and poor I seem it worth voting. Any opinions on this situation as it is my first chance to vote on a presidential decision, let alone my first voting oppurtunity as a begining socialist.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Obama had called for the bombing of Pakistan, among other things: http://freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?336

The Democrats have repeatedly made clear that they are not "anti-war", despite the fact that their base among the workers and farmers of the country are. Instead, the Democrats represent the same rich ruling elite as the Republicans, and in the end, those elite are the only people they answer to.

To make any real change in society, and to bring imperialist wars to an end once and for all, we must break from the Democratic Party and take independent, revolutionary action.

[R_P_A_S]

i don't think is worth it. might as well do a write in.

[BIG BROTHER]

I on the other hand, think you should vote, just to keep republicans out of power.

[Dominicana_1965]

I on the other hand, think you should vote, just to keep republicans out of power.

Even if Republicans were "out of power" the World wouldn't see it as missing a section of politics for the simple fact that the Democrats would maintain Republican policies. (Which are Capitalist policies)

[Ismail]

I see nothing wrong with voting in emergency situations. The CPUSA encouraged people to vote for the Democrats against the isolationist Republicans (Who refused to intervene in Europe) in 1936 and 1940. Besides that though, the Democrats are marginally better than the Republicans. Debs said "The Democrats are the small capitalists and the Republicans are the big capitalists" at one point, "but they are still both capitalist" he stressed. So if you do vote, it should only be to make the worser option lose.

[( R )evolution]

Voting gives validity to the system we which to destroy. I completely disagree with voting. I see it as completely useless. But sadly, when it comes down to it. I would much rather have a democrat than a republican in office in regards to the situation which plagues the poor and workers.. But I also take the view that the only thing that the democrats will give to the American population is to throw them some bones to keep them happy and thus cause the revolutionary potential to be delayed. While republican actions and policies create a great fury within the workers and if we as revolutionaries were able to harvest this power than I believe we would have a much better shot at getting the gears to real change starting. Revolution is sadly not a viable option in America or other western nations yet. It simple does not have the fury or anger in which our revolutionary message would appeal. So...... fuck voting its stupid.

[ComradeR]

In the US the working class vote carries very little political weight. It may have a small impact by giving a nudge in the final decision by indicating where the current attitude of the working class lies, but in the end it is the votes of the bourgeoisie and their representatives that hold the real power. From nominating their candidate done by delegates to the actually presidential election through the Electoral Collage. In the end our vote really has no real purpose other then to give us the illusion of having political power.

[Cold]

In the US the working class vote carries very little political weight. It may have a small impact by giving a nudge in the final decision by indicating where the current attitude of the working class lies, but in the end it is the votes of the bourgeoisie and their representatives that hold the real power. From nominating their candidate done by delegates to the actually presidential election through the Electoral Collage. In the end our vote really has no real purpose other then to give us the illusion of having political power.

I agree with this, to some extent.

Sometimes I fail to see any real difference between Republicans and Democrats. If you ask me, it's all much the same. There is no real opposing party that goes against the current direction the US is headed in.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

We shouldn't approach this as a lifestyle question. Whether or not you vote as an individual is pretty unimportant.

But we communists are the most class conscious workers. It's our job to do what we can to elevate the consciousness of our brothers and sisters. It's ridiculous for us to talk about revolution and throwing out the capitalists and destroying their state, then going to vote for one of two capitalist candidates, in a capitalist election, to decide who will sit atop the capitalist state. We need to work to break our fellow workers free of the sham of capitalist "democracy" and especially the capitalist Democratic Party.

I see nothing wrong with voting in emergency situations. The CPUSA encouraged people to vote for the Democrats against the isolationist Republicans (Who refused to intervene in Europe) in 1936 and 1940. Besides that though, the Democrats are marginally better than the Republicans. Debs said "The Democrats are the small capitalists and the Republicans are the big capitalists" at one point, "but they are still both capitalist" he stressed. So if you do vote, it should only be to make the worser option lose.

Only liberals look at the "worser option." Lesser-evilism has nothing to do with communism.

Communists look at class forces. Both the Democrats and the Republicans are capitalist parties, and workers must not only break free from them but oppose them.

Reformists and traitors of all sorts have used the "emergency situation" excuse for years. It's bogus. The CPUSA has been calling every election in recent history "the most important election ever" to excuse their backing of the capitalist Democrats.

And even this liberal notion that "things are a little better under the Democrats" is bogus. Welfare was gutted, Viet Nam and Korea were bombed and invaded, nuclear weapons were used, etc., under presidents belonging to the Democratic Party.

The Democrats serve as a kind of cushion for the capitalists to fall back on. Its easier to push through all sorts of reactionary shit when they're in office because so many people are fooled into believing "they're a little better."

Workers need nothing short of revolution, and we need to break with the "other party of war" to make that happen.

[SamiBTX]

If you don't vote, don't complain.

[Dominicana_1965]

If you don't vote, don't complain.

That seems to be completely more applicable to Bourgeois reformists than Communists in the sense that Communists aren't trying to "better" the system, we're trying to overthrow it.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Exactly.
'
And like George Carlin put it "where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You voted them in. You caused the problem. You have no right to complain.

"I, on the other hand, who did not vote -- who in fact did not even leave the house on Election Day -- am in no way responsible for that these politicians have done and have every right to complain about the mess that you created."

and..

'You know what the difference is between you going to the polls and jerking off? When I get finished masturbating, I'll have a little something to show for it."

Hey, if we're going to use flawed logic, let's at least have a laugh.

[Dros]

If you don't vote, don't complain.

Shut up.

Voting in Bourgeois elections as an action endorses a.) the process whereby the oppressors of the proletariat are chosen and b.) the governments selected by that process and therefore c.) the heinous and brutal crimes that WILL be committed by whichever reactionary happens to get elected.