The think I never forgot Stalin is that he ordered to execute leaders of Communist Party of Poland in 1938, as well as transfering members of KPD and KPO that ran from Hitler back to him.
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I purposly focused on the party bigwigs fear of workers power.
The think I never forgot Stalin is that he ordered to execute leaders of Communist Party of Poland in 1938, as well as transfering members of KPD and KPO that ran from Hitler back to him.
Exactly. And there are so many similar examples. Isn't that proof enough that stalinism is reactionary and that the prime stalinist experiment, the USSR, was a reactionary state?
Last edited by A New Era; 10th February 2008 at 11:25.
Despite the opinions about Stalin I think that it none of communists could say USSR was reactionary.
Anthony Beevor isn't a historian likely to gain you much credence with the Stalinists here A New Era, they think bad politics must entail bad history; which is not always true.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
- Hanlon's Razor
Go read something.
"The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.
Workers of the World Unite!" -Karl Marx
"The dictatorship of the proletariat, i.e., the organization of the vanguard of the oppressed as the ruling class for the purpose of suppressing the oppressors, cannot result merely in an expansion of democracy. Simultaneously with an immense expansion of democracy, which for the first time becomes democracy for the poor, democracy for the people, and not democracy for the money-bags, the dictatorship of the proletariat imposes a series of restrictions on the freedom of the oppressors, the exploiters, the capitalists. " -Vladimir Lenin
"The People's democratic dictatorship needs the leadership of the working class. For it is only the working class that is most far-sighted, most selfless and most thoroughly revolutionary. The entire history of revolution proves that without the leadership of the working class revolution fails and that with the leadership of the working class revolution triumphs." -Mao Zedong
That's what Hoxhaists believe, actually.
Read up on the "hidden revisionists" theory.
Ah, well researched facts here folks! You should think about becoming a historian. Perhaps aspire to the Nobel prize while you're at it?
Seriously, if you want to criticize someone, whoever it is, you should actually show proper arguments and sources.
"El ideal del P.S.O.E. es la completa emancipación de la clase trabajadora; Es decir, la abolición de todas las clases sociales y su declaración y conversión en una sola clase de trabajadores, dueños del fruto de su trabajo, libres, iguales, honrados e inteligentes." -Pablo Iglesias (founder of PSOE and UGT)
"Quienes contraponen liberalismo y socialismo, o no conocen el primero o no saben los verdaderos objetivos del segundo." -Pablo Iglesias
Art. 1.º España es una República democrática de trabajadores de toda clase, que se
organiza en régimen de Libertad y de Justicia.
I think we should stop throwing the word reactionary around...it's used too loosely, and can refer to a plethora of things...
“The Roots of Violence: Wealth without work, Pleasure without conscience, Knowledge without character, Commerce without morality, Science without humanity, Worship without sacrifice, Politics without principles” Gandhi
"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell" Edward Abbey
"All struggle against fascism must win" George Habash
ثورة حتى نصر
(Revolution Until Victory)
Yes, this is evidently true. They are subjectively revolutionary.
And there is one problem with Stalinism - it fosters the idea that being subjectively revolutionary is not enough. For them, Trotskyists, for instance, or anarchists, may well be subjectively revolutionary, but are objectively reactionary; and being objectively reactionary is as bad, if not worse, than being subjectively treasonous.
So, no, we shouldn't consider Stalinists necessarily traitors. But we should demand from them that they apply to others - Trotkyists, anarchists, social-democrats, left-communists - the same standards that they would like to be applied to them.
Their monopoly of moral judgement within the left was based on brute force - State force. But now that we can paraphrase their icon, and ask "but how many armoured divisions do the Stalinists have?", that is over...
Luís Henrique
The Stalinists or Anti Revisionists as they like to call themselves defend an Idea based on oppressive control and destruction of the so called workers state, the Soviet government under Stalin was corrupt, elitist genocidal. the state apparatus made the life of the proletarians hell. The system was undemocratic and however many elections there are they still have a dictatorial system. I mean "you're allowed to vote, but theres only one party and one candidate per constituency." that is what Stalin and many left-wing governments did(with exceptions of Chavez and Allende and the Spanish Republic)
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -8.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.41
theweekylspectrum.wordpress.com - my Blog
"The limitation of riots, moral questions aside, is that they cannot win
and their participants know it. Hence, rioting is not revolutionary but
reactionary because it invites defeat. It involves an emotional
catharsis, but it must be followed by a sense of futility."
-- Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
In some aspects it is enough, but most of the time it is not. We are not liberals Luis, and I really dislike the fact that the radical left is dominated by people who are supporting factions of the bourgeosie.
Formerly dada
[URL="https://gemeinwesen.wordpress.com/"species being[/URL] - A magazine of communist polemic
^ Personal attack.
That Mao closed the Shanghai People's Commune and the Hundred Flowers Campaign is common knowledge, is it not?
Last edited by A New Era; 11th February 2008 at 21:27.
And, if it is not enough when concerning anarchists or social democrats, it is also not enough concerning Stalinists. The fact that they have their hearts on the right side still doesn't mean that they have their heads there too.
If they can call others traitors, then others can call them traitors too. If for no other reason, because they systematically support factions of the bourgeoisie...
Luís Henrique
Care to back that up with a real argument?
Or you can just crawl back into your hole and shut up.
Last edited by Dros; 12th February 2008 at 20:41. Reason: mispelling (twice)
"The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.
Workers of the World Unite!" -Karl Marx
"The dictatorship of the proletariat, i.e., the organization of the vanguard of the oppressed as the ruling class for the purpose of suppressing the oppressors, cannot result merely in an expansion of democracy. Simultaneously with an immense expansion of democracy, which for the first time becomes democracy for the poor, democracy for the people, and not democracy for the money-bags, the dictatorship of the proletariat imposes a series of restrictions on the freedom of the oppressors, the exploiters, the capitalists. " -Vladimir Lenin
"The People's democratic dictatorship needs the leadership of the working class. For it is only the working class that is most far-sighted, most selfless and most thoroughly revolutionary. The entire history of revolution proves that without the leadership of the working class revolution fails and that with the leadership of the working class revolution triumphs." -Mao Zedong
My bad, I was having a bad day.
You don't actually explain how it was reactionary for Mao to close them both down. If you had gone in depth then it would have actually been a proper argument. Merely saying "look, he did closed down a commune! that makes him reactionary!" is not a good way to criticize someone, especially form a class perspective.
"El ideal del P.S.O.E. es la completa emancipación de la clase trabajadora; Es decir, la abolición de todas las clases sociales y su declaración y conversión en una sola clase de trabajadores, dueños del fruto de su trabajo, libres, iguales, honrados e inteligentes." -Pablo Iglesias (founder of PSOE and UGT)
"Quienes contraponen liberalismo y socialismo, o no conocen el primero o no saben los verdaderos objetivos del segundo." -Pablo Iglesias
Art. 1.º España es una República democrática de trabajadores de toda clase, que se
organiza en régimen de Libertad y de Justicia.
But we're not talking about an outright socialist revolution, are we?
We are talking about the DEMOCRATIC revolution, in which case a "firm alliance" with the petit bourgeoisie (including peasants) is absolutely necessary. That is, unless you subscribe to Trotsky's "permanent revolution" and the absurd idea of merely "leaning" on the petit-bourgeoisie.
All "fine and dandy," except that:
1) Peasants are petit-bourgeois (why separate the former from the latter?); and
2) No sane haute bourgeois would EVER capitulate to proletarian rule, EVEN for the DEMOCRATIC tasks.
Last edited by Die Neue Zeit; 15th February 2008 at 06:04.
"A new centrist project does not have to repeat these mistakes. Nobody in this topic is advocating a carbon copy of the Second International (which again was only partly centrist)." (Tjis, class-struggle anarchist)
"A centrist strategy is based on patience, and building a movement or party or party-movement through deploying various instruments, which I think should include: workplace organising, housing struggles [...] and social services [...] and a range of other activities such as sports and culture. These are recruitment and retention tools that allow for a platform for political education." (Tim Cornelis, left-communist)
I think that Stalinists are honestly scary.
Actually the modern 'anti-Stalinist left' are almost the textbook definition for the kind of 'reactionary socialism' explained by Marx in the last area of the Communist Manifesto.
Leave the Anti-Revisionists alone!!!
