this is very bad news, if the left is failing to organise effectively in the third worlds new economies
then we are in trouble, the BJP are fascists from what I hear but even if they were just right wing that's bad enough
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7158037.stm
The Hindu nationalist BJP has won a key election in the western Indian state of Gujarat, final results show.
It marks a big victory for controversial right-wing Chief Minister Narendra Modi, who is credited with pursuing successful economic policies.
The governing Congress party admitted defeat in the communally-divided state.
Correspondents say the victory will boost the BJP as it challenges Congress in the run-up to a general election due in the next 18 months.
The BJP won 117 out of 182 seats in the Gujarat Legislative Assembly, with Congress winning 59 and six seats going to the smaller parties, results from the Electoral Commission of India showed.
It is the fourth consecutive BJP election victory in Gujarat.
The Congress party acknowledged its defeat in Gujarat, but reminded voters of religious riots in 2002.
Map of India
Mr Modi has been accused of failing to protect Muslims in the riots, which claimed the lives of 1,000 people.
"I do not grudge him the victory," Congress spokesman Abhishek Manu Singhvi told the Times of India.
However, he added that the win did not remove the "blot" of the religious riots of 2002.
The Congress party campaigned hard to defeat him, with major rallies by its top leaders including Sonia Gandhi and her son, Rahul, the latest member of the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty in Indian politics.
But their defeat means that it is back to the drawing board and a major setback ahead of the more important national poll, the BBC's correspondent in Delhi, Sanjoy Majumder, says.
I've been reading some compromising stuff about this RSS party regarding the riots lately. Seems like it is a fascist group with ties with death squads.
Why aren't maoists in india targetting them instead of the police?
this is very bad news, if the left is failing to organise effectively in the third worlds new economies
then we are in trouble, the BJP are fascists from what I hear but even if they were just right wing that's bad enough
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -8.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.41
theweekylspectrum.wordpress.com - my Blog
"The limitation of riots, moral questions aside, is that they cannot win
and their participants know it. Hence, rioting is not revolutionary but
reactionary because it invites defeat. It involves an emotional
catharsis, but it must be followed by a sense of futility."
-- Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
It's not like the BJP is any worse than Congress. In fact, between the two, Congress is probably worse.
And no, I wouldn't call the BJP fascist by a long shot. You MIGHT get away with calling some elements of other groups fascistic (I've run into some RSS rhetoric that can sound pretty scary), but that's totally different and, IMO, has almost nothing to do with this issue.
With the Gujarat tragedy, the Mumbai bombings and a whole bunch of other stuff, I do hope Hindus and Muslims won't get at each other's throats. Islamic lunatics in Pakistan have been fanning these flames for awhile, and the RSS and their cronies have shown their true colors in their responses. However, I don't think the elections have much to do with this at all, it probably came down to the fact that Congress is a complete joke run by an inept Italian.
DELETE
It happens, don't panic. Elections are only a snapshot of the class struggle, not complete pictures. Often, what's important is to look beneath the surface, what is behind the polarization of bourgeois society. We need to find out: why has the working class been unable to capitalize on the crises?
In India, a look at the communist parties and their conduct gives us a hint that before we will see the working class take on the bourgeoisie, it will need to clean out its own political house.
The leadership of the working class has betrayed it, from the unions right on up to the social democratic, socialist and communist parties across the world. Until a revolutionary party is built, and connects with the masses, there will be a dissipation of all the pent up frustration, as the workers stumble from one crisis to another without taking power into their own hands.
The class is confused until it becomes aware of itself, don't mourn, organize.
The BJP is just itching for the day that they can implement Hitler's Final Solution against India's Muslim population.
No need to panic this much . This one is an election result of jut one among 25 states not of the whole of India.
. In amny southeren and eastern states BJP don't even have a single member in their party.
BJP can never ever get a compltel majority in the Indian parliament fundamentally becaue of the nature of the relgion whih they claim havethe authority of and which they claim to represent - Hinduism. To unedrstand the detils of it is really unnecessary in this debate.
Indin workers nand peasants are not just foolish people who would follow the fascist path just beacue their life is a total shit. There is a struggle is going on here and many of then have aready started realising whether it is Congress or BJP or the Communists(Stalinists) no body works for them.
Your post speaks the very reality of the Indian communist movement which fits both to Stalinists and Maoists. Good analysis.
We cannot say outright it is. BJP is an ardent suporter of Israel and its policy towards Palestinians.
That sounds very much like the Stalinist stance in Germany 1930's . A very dangerous stance in deed.
It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
-Trotsky
Marx & Engels ! Lenin ! Trotsky
I respect your opinion on this matter, but you need to clarify yourself. In the same post I've quoted, you flatly dismissed a comparison between the BJP and the Nazis; why are you making that same comparison now?
Anyway, Congress is among the most corrupt parties around, run by an Italian who cynically uses Ghandi's name for political gain. The BJP will have to work overtime to make themselves substantially worse than Congress. Who knows? Maybe they will. The point was that the difference between Congress and the BJP is minimal. The BJP was in power for awhile until a few years ago and it's not like Muslims were killed on the streets then, so I don't see too much reason for the concern for "Hindu Fascism" shown on this thread.
oh dont be stupid that's a crazy and irresponsible comment!
Islamic fascism have tradionally been attacking Dharmic phiolosphies in the region, which are far more hospitable to socialism than Islamic fundamentalism.
Indians are indians, be they Muslim or Hindu or others and tradionally they've got along fine, what we need here is reconciliation, peaceful relations and secularism, the BJP isnt my choice to accomplish this, but they arent as radical or crazy as you portray them to be, there are crazy fringe elements like the RSS though, but they arent proposing violence..
its against the nature of hinduism, im sure their nationalist sentiments might lead to more violence if it was another place/culture but the Indian situation is different
someone who doesnt know a region, or the politics of it shouldnt put out crazy thoughts.
There is a difference between "revolutionary" and just plain wrong.
---
edit: let me stress, im not
Economic Left/Right: -10.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.31
"Those who do not move, do not notice their chains."
~ Rosa Luxemburg
I may have seemed panicky before, I thought it was nation wide elections not just regional
anyway, I was also panicking because as a rising economic power, India may be the nation that kick-starts the worldwide revolution
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -8.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.41
theweekylspectrum.wordpress.com - my Blog
"The limitation of riots, moral questions aside, is that they cannot win
and their participants know it. Hence, rioting is not revolutionary but
reactionary because it invites defeat. It involves an emotional
catharsis, but it must be followed by a sense of futility."
-- Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
The BJP are fascists. And, I think that it is very clear that there is little to no difference between the BJP and the Congress, except in their articulations of Hindutva. As for them not killing Muslims in the streets well I think that besides the very clear cases in which the Hindutva forces massacred the Muslim population, be it the Shiv Sena in Mumbai and Modhi and co. in Gujrat, there have been consistent reports of BJP, RSS and Shiv Sena members harassing, raping and killing Dalits and Muslims quite consistently at a lower level, especially the village level. It is true that these have not been covered in the mainstream press but that does not mean it has occurred. On economic policies both parties have ensured that maintenance of feudal relations in the villages, and have provided the conditions to ensure that the people (who are fighting back) are unable to defeat the onslaught of economic neoliberalization especially in the forms of the SEZ's.
What sort of policies does this party have? Are they similer to the BNP or other far-right parties? I'm assuming they have racist platforms.
They really don't, people here are just being hysterical. Anyway, the BJP is about Hindutva, which is about religious identity and not ethnic identity; Hindutva can be embraced by people from Pakistan to Sri Lanka and beyond. The comparison to the Nazis is just inexplicable and wrong and more. It's not like I'm defending the BJP, and they have done very reactionary things in the past, but in the grand scope of things, India isn't getting a party any worse than Congress (and they certainly aren't getting fascists).
At any rate, in terms of actual policy, they don't actually differ from Congress all that much. I really can't figure out why people are going crazy over this.
It is bad news indeed, but on the same hand West Bengel keeps electing the Communist Party.
That "communist party" recently slaughtered a bunch of defenseless villagers in Nandigram.
There are NO communists within the ruling class.
Do not say that we have nothing,
We shall be masters of all under heaven!
It is clearly not appropriate to describe this party as 'fascist' as doing so shows a failure to understand the material roots of fascism and the conditions in which fascism has historically been able to develop as a strong political force. Fascism only poses a real threat (in the sense of being able able to attain an absolute majority through the electoral process or take power through armed force without strong working-class resistance) when the bourgeoisie is faced with expropriation due to rising working-class radicalism, and so provides support, primarily in the form of donated funds, to a party which aims to preserve private property and render workers' organisations such as trade unions impotent, through the power of the state. During a period of relative economic and political normalcy, support for fascism is limited to the petty bourgeoisie, who are in constant fear of entering the proletariat and are most susceptible to racist ideas.
This is still a worrying development, however, and poses the need to develop a strong vanguard party. With the exception of the Naxalite movement, which is based in central rural provinces and commands popular support amongst the peasantry, the radical left in India is limited to electoral reformism, and in some cases has assumed a reactionary stance with regard to issues of individual freedom, as shown by the government of Kerala's decision to raise the age of consent to 18.
I wouldn't consider the BJP fascist, only right-wing (more so than Congress and the NCP). Shiv Sena are the party to look out for and to organise against. Unfortunately they are securing key victories due to their grassroots mobilisation, especially around places like Mumbai and Pune.
Coalition of Resistance - Fight Back Against the Cuts!
"As for the lad "Sam_b", I've been reading this forum for a while and I don't think I've ever seen him contribute anything of any value. Most of the chap's posts seem to be confrontational and snarky digs at other posters. Thankfully, most other contributors do not seem to behave in this manner." - Some Guy
here comes another Hitler or Mussolini
Apparently they were acting on behalf of powerful Indonesian interests known for having ties to Suharto. (Hey, that sentence would make just as much sense if you replaced the word Indonesian with USian.)
And guess who allies with Shiv Sena on the national level.
