USSR collapse

[Xiao Banfa]

This extract is about an ex-KGB strategic planner who defected to the US in 1961.

He claims the Sino-Soviet split was a ruse to deceive the west. He also claims that
the collapse of the USSR was orchestrated from above and was designed to lull the west into a false sense of security so Europe could be pulled away from the west.

Controversies
Golitsyn was a figure of significant controversy in the Western intelligence community. Military writer John Hackett and CIA counter-intelligence director James Angleton identified Golitsyn as "The most valuable defector ever to reach the West" , . However, the official historian for Britain's MI5 Christopher Andrew described him as an "unreliable conspiracy theorist" . Andrew believes that although intelligence data provided by Golitsyn were reliable, some of his global political assessments of the Soviet and KGB strategy are questionable . In particular, he disputed the Golitsyn's claim that the "Sino-Soviet split was a charade to deceive the West".

New Lies for Old
In 1984, Golitsyn published the book New Lies For Old, wherein he predicted the collapse of the communist bloc orchestrated from above. He warned about a long-term deception strategy designed to lull the West into a false sense of security, and finally economically cripple and diplomatically isolate the United States. Among other things, Golitsyn stated:

"The 'liberalization' [in the Soviet Union] would be spectacular and impressive. Formal pronouncements might be made about a reduction in the communist party's role; its monopoly would be apparently curtailed."
"If [liberalization] should be extended to East Germany, demolition of the Berlin Wall might even be contemplated."
"The European Parliament might become an all-European socialist parliament with representation from the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. 'Europe from the Atlantic to the Urals' would turn out to be a neutral, socialist Europe."

The Perestroika Deception
In 1995 Golitsyn published another book The Perestroika Deception where he claimed:

"The [Soviet] strategists are concealing the secret coordination that exists and will continue between Moscow and the 'nationalist' leaders of [the] 'independent' republics."
"The power of the KGB remains as great as ever... Talk of cosmetic changes in the KGB and its supervision is deliberately publicized to support the myth of 'democratization' of the Soviet political system."
"Scratch these new, instant Soviet 'democrats,' 'anti-Communists,' and 'nationalists' who have sprouted out of nowhere, and underneath will be found secret Party members or KGB agents."

Criticism and support
Author Mark Riebling stated that of 194 predictions made in New Lies For Old, 139 had been fulfilled by 1993, 9 seemed 'clearly wrong', and the other 46 were 'not soon falsifiable'.

According to Golitsyn, the programs of perestroika and glasnost have been planned by the Soviet and KGB leadership to improve the international standing of the Soviet Union and deceive the West. This information was supported by publications claiming that Mikhail Gorbachev justified his new policies as a necessary step to "hug Europe to death" and "evict the United States from Europe." Soviet dissident Vladimir Bukovsky also supported this information:

"In 1992 I had unprecedented access to Politburo and Central Committee secret documents which have been classified, and still are even now, for 30 years. These documents show very clearly that the whole idea of turning the European common market into a federal state was agreed between the left-wing parties of Europe and Moscow as a joint project which Gorbachev in 1988-89 called our "common European home." (interview by The Brussels Journal, February 23, 2006).
On June 8, 1995, the British Conservative Member of Parliament Christopher Gill quoted The Perestroika Deception during a House of Commons debate, saying "It stretches credulity to its absolute bounds to think that suddenly, overnight, all those who were Communists will suddenly adopt a new philosophy and belief, with the result that everything will be different. I use this opportunity to warn the House and the country that that is not the truth," and "Every time the House approves one of these collective agreements, not least treaties agreed by the collective of the European Union, it contributes to the furtherance of the Russian strategy."

According to Russian political scientist Yevgenia Albats, Golitsyn's book New Lies for Old claimed that "as early as 1959, the KGB was working up a perestroika-type plot to manipulate foreign public opinion on a global scale. The plan was in a way inspired by the teachings of the sixth-century B.C. Chinese theoretician and military commander Sun Tsu, who said, I will force the enemy to take our strength for weakness, and our weakness for strength, and thus will turn his strength into weakness" Albats argued that the KGB was the major beneficiary of political changes in Russia, and perhaps indeed directed Gorbachev. According to her, "one thing is certain: perestroika opened the way for the KGB to advance toward the very heart of power [in Russia]" .

Golitsyn's publications were vigorously supported by American political writer Jeffrey Nyquist.

[Enragé]

1. conspiracist bullshit
2. if its true, the USSR reveals itself as what it was/is(?), an empire bent on world domination, i.e bourgeois imperialist fuckers.

[Forward Union]

I heard the communist party leadership in the USSR is made up of Trans-dimensional Lizard shape-shifters (Source) who get around using their black helecopters.

Now that you know the truth about them, and the USSR, you should wear a tin foil hat to stop them hearing your thoughts.

Im Serious.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by NKOS@December 04, 2007 05:22 pm
1. conspiracist bullshit
2. if its true, the USSR reveals itself as what it was/is(?), an empire bent on world domination, i.e bourgeois imperialist fuckers.

hmmm, I don't think that USSR wanted to dominate the world, they wanted to spread socialism around the world, not dominated it. I think that the US media made the USSR look like a bad criminal. Of course USSR was corrupt state, because as you know all states are corrupt, even Chavez, Castro and the most democratic state of today's world are coercive and corrupt.

However the notion that USSR wanted to kill us all and destroy us all was a Reagan, Kissinger, and US TV propaganda, for americans to hate socialism.

Of course USSR government invested a lot in weapons, military, etc. but it was a reaction to US state terrorism against USSR

I don't wanna deffend USSR, North Korea, etc. i know that they were centralized state capitalist systems, but i just want to point out that the real bad guy in this movie is USA and right wing allies

marxist_god

[AGITprop]

Originally posted by William Everard@December 04, 2007 05:33 pm
I heard the communist party leadership in the USSR is made up of Trans-dimensional Lizard shape-shifters (Source) who get around using their black helecopters.

Now that you know the truth about them, and the USSR, you should wear a tin foil hat to stop them hearing your thoughts.

Im Serious.

i heard showering in cold watr prevents them from smelling you 2

[Dr Mindbender]

..this is about as convincing as the conspiracy about the third reich still existing, only based from antarctica where they build flying saucers.

<_<

[LOTFW]

I don&#39;t wanna deffend USSR, North Korea, etc. i know that they were centralized state capitalist systems, but i just want to point out that the real bad guy in this movie is USA and right wing allies

I know of no one who views/viewed the USA as the "bad guys" in the Cold War movie. One can make fun of both sides, and find plenty of fault with both, but I&#39;ve never met anyone who would have rather lived in, say, 1957 Vladivostok, rather than 1957 Portland, Maine.

[Dros]

Originally posted by William Everard@December 04, 2007 05:33 pm
I heard the communist party leadership in the USSR is made up of Trans-dimensional Lizard shape-shifters (Source) who get around using their black helecopters.

Now that you know the truth about them, and the USSR, you should wear a tin foil hat to stop them hearing your thoughts.

Im Serious.

I&#39;d suggest two sheets of tin foil...

[Red October]

Originally posted by LOTFW@December 04, 2007 02:46 pm
I know of no one who views/viewed the USA as the "bad guys" in the Cold War movie.

Welcome to Revleft

[jacobin1949]

I&#39;m still waiting for the day CIA archives reveal Gorby was on the payroll.

[Dimentio]

I like conspirationism. In fact, the 9/11-truthers show some potency to become a death-cult themselves.

Conspirationism is a monster, a Frankenstein erected from the rotting corpse of Manicheism.

[LOTFW]

Sure, Red October. But get serious for a moment, and tell me the title of a cold war film where the Soviets are the good guys, and the Americans the bad guys.

The Soviets must have produced SOMETHING along these lines.

Any titles come to mind?

[LSD]

Sure, Red October. But get serious for a moment, and tell me the title of a cold war film where the Soviets are the good guys, and the Americans the bad guys.

The Soviets must have produced SOMETHING along these lines.

Any titles come to mind?

Sure, but they&#39;re all in Russian. And who wants to watch Soviet films anyway? Everyone knows they&#39;re completely full of bullshi... oh wait, that was your point wasn&#39;t it?

Yeah, when you fighting an ideolgoical war, it&#39;s probably not a good idea to have such a shitty ideology as Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist-Whateverthefuckism.

But to answer your question, yes, I can forsee a scenario in which I would rather live under the Soviet government than the American, if I was broke and starving. &#39;Cause, for all its faults, at least the USSR guaranteed basic survival.

Peronsally, I would much prefer living in the "free" world, but then I&#39;m neither broke nor starving.

[Tatarin]

(Source)

Many of Golitsyn&#39;s "foreseeings" are most likely based on speculation and guessing of future events.

For example, why did the USSR and China split? To decieve the west. Why? How could breaking up of unions ever serve the deciever? The only thing the Soviets needed to do was to overthrow the US government, or at least destabilize it so much that there would be another civil war there.

This like the conspiracy that the Soviets grew ever large, while the US did nothing.

[lvleph]

Originally posted by LOTFW@December 04, 2007 07:30 pm
Sure, Red October. But get serious for a moment, and tell me the title of a cold war film where the Soviets are the good guys, and the Americans the bad guys.

The Soviets must have produced SOMETHING along these lines.

Any titles come to mind?

It was a figure of speech. No one was talking about an actual movie. Or am I misunderstanding your post?

[LOTFW]

Actually, that was my point. LSD, you got it exactly. Good films transcend politics. Casablanca and its message never get old.

If Russia produced a great film that was the product of the Cold War, where they were the good guys, thwarting the West, it would be remembered and watched. Even if it were in Russian (which it obviously would be); translations would be made, and it would be available.

Anywhere that fed you would be better than broke and starving. But how many Americans presented themselves to the Soviet Embassy for repatriation in the USSR, versus how many wanted to come to the USA? Probably 1:50,000. It&#39;s difficult to make a movie w/ the good guys winning over the hearts and minds of one guy, while millions want to leave that same society.

But yeah, lvleph. It wasn&#39;t a figure of speech. If the Russians were the "good guys" in the Cold War, why does no one modernly celibrate 1950&#39;s and 1960&#39;s Soviet life?

[lvleph]

Kokoschka (The Cuckoo) is a film in which the Russians are the good guys (if I recall correctly), but they were fighting Nazis not Americans. And it was a very good film, but wasn&#39;t really about the Russia or the cold war.

The film is in three different languages Russian, Lap, and Finnish.

Also, there was the film Europa Europa, but I don&#39;t know if I would say they were portrayed in the best light, just better than the Nazis.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by Serpent@December 04, 2007 11:18 pm
I like conspirationism. In fact, the 9/11-truthers show some potency to become a death-cult themselves.

Conspirationism is a monster, a Frankenstein erected from the rotting corpse of Manicheism.

The US government official story about 9-11 is a conspiracy, is the real conspiracy, it is a complete lie, how can u buy the official story of 9-11. Remember that capitalists in power decieve us all the time, 9-11 was just 1 of those deceptions

marxist_god

[Cheung Mo]

Originally posted by LOTFW@December 04, 2007 07:46 pm

I don&#39;t wanna deffend USSR, North Korea, etc. i know that they were centralized state capitalist systems, but i just want to point out that the real bad guy in this movie is USA and right wing allies

I know of no one who views/viewed the USA as the "bad guys" in the Cold War movie. One can make fun of both sides, and find plenty of fault with both, but I&#39;ve never met anyone who would have rather lived in, say, 1957 Vladivostok, rather than 1957 Portland, Maine.

Progress is relative, comrade. Look where Eastern Europe started after WW1 and look where the U.S. started.

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by LOTFW@December 05, 2007 02:51 pm
Actually, that was my point. LSD, you got it exactly. Good films transcend politics. Casablanca and its message never get old.

If Russia produced a great film that was the product of the Cold War, where they were the good guys, thwarting the West, it would be remembered and watched. Even if it were in Russian (which it obviously would be); translations would be made, and it would be available.

Anywhere that fed you would be better than broke and starving. But how many Americans presented themselves to the Soviet Embassy for repatriation in the USSR, versus how many wanted to come to the USA? Probably 1:50,000. It&#39;s difficult to make a movie w/ the good guys winning over the hearts and minds of one guy, while millions want to leave that same society.

But yeah, lvleph. It wasn&#39;t a figure of speech. If the Russians were the "good guys" in the Cold War, why does no one modernly celibrate 1950&#39;s and 1960&#39;s Soviet life?

It exists. It is called "Solo Voyage".