I am going. I bought my coach ticket today.
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On September 28th, there's a "Don't Bomb Iraq" march in London. I know that Reuben and Kamo have expressed an interest, but is anyone else up for going??
<span style=\'font-family:Geneva\'><span style=\'color:red\'>SOUS LES PAVÉS, LA PLAGE!!</span></span>
I am going. I bought my coach ticket today.
The avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
I'll be there.
"a bayonet is a weapon with a worker at both ends"
"I'd rather vote for something I want and not get it than vote for something I don't want, and get it."
Looking for info as i type, might be there, might not, only time and biscuits will tell
Its a load of crap. An email sent to me recently displays this in a super duper way -
"Last Night some comrades and myself attended a meeting at a university in
North London on the question of the war in Iraq. The speakers were from the
CND, stop the war coalition, and some palestinian journalist. The speakers
were useless. They confined themselves to cataloguing the crimes of the
west, and opposing the bombing from a moralistic point of view. They
exhorted us in the most pathetic voices they could muster to get involved
and build the movement! There were people in the audience crying!
The meeting was made up from all sorts, itellectuals, socialists, and
muslims (moderate or fundamentalist). It was interesting to see how the
speakers, a few of who were members of socialist groups toned down their
language in order to win over all the odds and sods in the audience. (I'm
not sure about sods, but there were a large number of odds present). However
a large number of the people in the room are ordinary people, who were
frankly bored by the wishy washy speeches, they probably came along
genuinely interested, and would have been receptive to a socialist position
on the war. The leadership of the stop the war coalition are incapable of
providing this. They would rather have quantity than quality.
I agree with Semeno that it would be preferable to have a mass marxist demo
of 500,000 marching through the centre of London opposing imperialist war,
and fighting for an end to capitalism.
Unfortunately we must proceed from where we are and not where we would like
to be. There is a ferment in society especially within the youth and
increasingly amoung the trade unionists. The conciousness of these people
will be advanced as events unfold. We should not be impatient for this
because it will happen.
But the task for us now is to intervene and pick up the best activists who
are already close to our ideas. So that we have the forces to intervene and
win broader layers later and eventually a majority. The reason we call the
marxist tendency the 'subjective factor' is that the success of the
revolution rests on us."
And i think this may have been by the famous kamo, but again is superb -
">Hi all,
>I am in a moral dilemma,
>the Iraq demo, i don't think i should go for following reasons:
> 1.. Saddam can use it as propaganda, say demo is for solidarity with
>Saddam (for sure there will be Iraqis in there for Saddam)
> 2.. It does not have a strong enough anti-imperialist point of view
> 3.. It does not bring out the class struggle of the Iraqi working class
>against the dictator
> 4.. Bush's puppet in Iraq would be better (just) than Saddam
> 5.. If Saddam is not removed now, how long more will he stay and
>persecute communists and socialists?
> 6.. UK media can twist story leaving public with anti-left feelings
> 7.. Capitalism is better than SAddams feudal system
> 8.. The Working Class have a better chance of revolution in Iraq under a
>puppet dictator than Saddam (e.g., look how working class fought against
>the Shah in Iran and won revolution)
> 9.. Im also sure that the Kurds that ran away from Saddams hell, will
>not be attending the demo, and want Saddam out
>The above are the reasons i will not attend to the demo, I believe the
>middle class white twats who organised the demo under "stopwar"
>organisation didn't think 2 fucks in organising the think, just like the
>pacifist in 1939 when war against the fascists even if were to end up as an
>imperialist victory in West Germany."
So the question must be asked, what is the march actually for? Do you believe that Saddam should be allowed to stay in power?
Captain Blackadder: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war two great super-armies developed. Us, the Russians and the French on one side, Germany and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea being that each army would act as the other's deterrent. That way, there could never be a war.
Private Baldrick: Except, this is sort of a war, isn't it?
Captain Blackadder: That's right. There was one tiny flaw in the plan.
Lieutenant George: O, what was that?
Captain Blackadder: It was bollocks.
Interesting but i will still oppose any action taken by America to topple Saddam and leave Iraq as a crushed example of the 'good' of capitalism
I will be there protesting against unilateral action. Not everyone at a protest march is there for the same reason. It is protesting the current aims of those in power.
The avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
I shall be there, with my my housemates, sporting nice anti bush boards we painted
So people, what did it feel like being part of the biggest anti war demonstration that Europe has ever seen?
Was it not fantastic?
Attendance figures range from 150,000 to 500,000, so the real number was probably around the 300,000 mark.
I had a great time, the crowd were great and the police presence was low.
Did anyone see the Bush tank? The one demanding more people to kill and Blair sat on its shoulder? Funny stuff.
The avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
I would have loved to have been there. The atmosphere must have been amazing.
At the one over here (Dublin) they announced about half way through the demo that there were 400,000 on the streets of London.
There were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror... --- Mark Twain
It was incredible! There were some good speakers, although I wished we hadn't missed tony benn...the cheer when they announced 400,000 on the PA was huge, made the whole day worth it
Anyone else get bugged by that damn helicopter? I couldn't hear what the speakers were saying.
Yeah...that was kinda the idea. Damn pigs.
It was amazing. That was my first demo. I'm now a full-on activist. I want suggestions for how else to aid the anti-war movement...NOW
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Thats from the guardian.
I still think it should have been an anti-imperlism march, then people could go along and say what the hell they wanted. But the fact that the leaders stated some definite stances - i felt kinda - "against" it, well not against, but not "with it"
I heard an organiser on radio 4 this morning - and all i can say is what a TWAT!
He claims that saddam only used the chemical weapons in response to kurdish riots and rebellions (is he trying to defend the dude?), and then when asked if he supported no action, he said something along the lines of,
-"No, i support the people rising against saddam"
What a moron! What has he just this minute fucking said! And what happened last time they rose? uh hu... And also it ain't a tiny army iraq have, i think its the biggest in the area isn't it?
I'm sorry, i just don't follow it. It seemed to blind to me.
Captain Blackadder: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war two great super-armies developed. Us, the Russians and the French on one side, Germany and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea being that each army would act as the other's deterrent. That way, there could never be a war.
Private Baldrick: Except, this is sort of a war, isn't it?
Captain Blackadder: That's right. There was one tiny flaw in the plan.
Lieutenant George: O, what was that?
Captain Blackadder: It was bollocks.
What i found amusing was that there was only one mention of it in the Torygraph, a letter sent in by someone complaining. This compared to 10 pages discussing John and Edwina
True. There was one small pic in the Sunday Torygraph, but today, there were at least two articles in its Opinions section on the protest. I deemed one good enough to be posted as anti-war ammo on Soc vs Cap...
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