communes - they need to start popping up

[RedRevolutionary87]

i think right now the best thing that can be done for our movement is to set up communes within cities and rural areas that will be independent of the state they are in. they will become cities within cities, we can take and furnish abandoned buildings, move people in, put them to work, find plots of remote land, that can be farmed, develope a nation within a nation...i think this is the best start to our movement, and its something that can be acheived in the near future

i got the idea from an anarchist friend of mine...ofcourse the communes i speak of will be parralell with socialist idiology

(Edited by RedRevolutionary87 at 3:47 pm on Aug. 16, 2002)

[Black Flag]

lol You dirty thief! Could've atleast asked before taking this idea.......
This idea is being developed at http://groups.msn.com/AnarchistAlliance

Helpful criticisms and/or interest will be greatly appreciated.
We're working on a 'plan' at the moment, when it's complete we'll start sending it to every leftist organisation to try and get some more support......ideally, we hope to get this idea working by next summer......

[RedRevolutionary87]

lol yes i kno it is, as i said my friend pete told me about it, so i thought id put it up here, i mean i dont kno why people act like cappies when you use their idea, i didnt claim it was my idea...and its benifiting everyone...i dotn see the problem.

secondly its not your idea since the idea of communes goes way back...

[Black Flag]

Then why did you say, ''I got teh idea from a anarchist friend of mine...'' ?
As for acting like a cappie, muwhahahahahahahahahhaahahhahaahah
Don't get so worked up, I know I can't stop you from steali-oh, i mean, 'applying' ,my idea..I just thought you'd have the good manners to ask first...obviously not, king of all rudeness. :P
To be honest I don't give a flying fuck if you take this idea, i'm glad you like it enough to do so anyway . so, thanks, i guess.

P.S. I am Pete

[RedRevolutionary87]

im not the one that started yelling...and i dont need to ask to use ideas...cuz...im special

[Black Flag]

LoL shut up for fuck sake! I was joking, you're making me out to be a penguinana!

We are all 'special' in our own little way.....

Stop whining and present ideas boy! This is supposed to be a debate, yah? zen speak!

[RedRevolutionary87]

ok thats iT! your out of the international! i dont need this lol

as for idea...i think we can get the initial funding from our local communist parties and their sympathisers, with that money we can buy equipment/tools, and furnishing...and simply move into abandond buildings. i think it would be wisest to start with urban communes since we can grow food in the city as well. after wards we can get rural plots of land that will provide the food, while the urban communes convert to the production of machines and tools. also even tho the communes should be geographicly spread out for security reasons, they should be tightly joined politicly, so as to be at maximum efficiency

[Black Flag]

''as for idea...i think we can get the initial funding from our local communist parties and their sympathisers, with that money we can buy equipment/tools, and furnishing...and simply move into abandond buildings''

Good shit.
We're looking for initial funding from Anarchist groups.
Just got to write up a sort of plan first so they take us seriously.
Moving into abandoned buildings , i feel , is a good idea (''building the ne wsociety out of the shell of the old'').
Question is would you squat or actually buy the land?
Personally, I think squatting would be risky, especially whilst starting the first few communes, but perhaps when the commune movement got off the ground, then squatting would be a risk that could be afforded.

''i think it would be wisest to start with urban communes since we can grow food in the city as well. ''

I agree with starting with urban communes to begin with, but you have obvious problems.
Would you really be able to sustain yourself food-wise?
Also, what about electricty? Would you simply get that off existing power grids (meaning the commune would be state-dependent still)? or would you find alternative means of producing enough electricity tfor heat, cooking etc?
I believe you should start with urban communes for a few reasons:
To gain and build support from local communitys.
To show them that a Anarchist society (or communist i suppose in your case) can work, and use the commune as a 'model' to show them this.
To make a real impact and get into the areas worse affected by poverty, homelessness etc.
Rural communes can be built later to provide the urban communes with food when they reach a point when they struggle to sustain themselves. An efficient method I believe.

''also even tho the communes should be geographicly spread out for security reasons, they should be tightly joined politicly, so as to be at maximum efficiency''

Absolutely.
Except instead of being joined 'politically', the Anarchist versions would 'federate' essentially 'uniting' all the communes.

[RedRevolutionary87]

i think it would be wise to buy the first land, and squat after we have the power too, also we could buy poluted land for very cheap money and clean it up, elctricity shouldnt be to hard, we could set up generater rooms for each building, also for heat we could start with a larg wood furnace and the citizens/workers of the building will be responsible for running it.

in the begining we will have to depend partialy on the state for certain comodities such as gas, milk, and other harder to produce products. however vegetables and other growable products will be commune grown within the first month of existance.

each commune will have an elected mayor with elections eery 3 months, and a representative that is elected every year. the mayor will be in charg of intracommunal organisation, while the rep will handle inter communal relationships and organisation (food suplys from rural to urban communes, and tools from urban to rural, etc..) and every year the reps will elect one of themselves to be the national representative handling international import/export and other things such is diplomacy, however the votes of the reps will be determined by the people they represent.

[death b4 dishonour]

k im in. give me a plot of land to grow some weed for the commune and ill be fine

[ratm545]

i'm not real educated about all this, but i've seen hippie communities that seemed to work fine without electricity, not sure if they did without plumbing, but they did buy supplies from the outside world with money made from crops, but i think they did as little as possible, would you be able to bend any and involvee some of the other world with your new one

[RedRevolutionary87]

y when we can make our own and better, i mean sure in the begining we will be a little like the hippie comunities, but we will do what they didnt, progress...

lol and y is it everyone i talk to about this wants to grow the weed, we need to fill opur stomaches before we can get high

(Edited by RedRevolutionary87 at 9:04 pm on Aug. 16, 2002)

[SmartGirl]

i think,No..i know R.R 87 is right because our Society is crumbling and when we have controle over what and where and how we live, and no goverment.It may start off small, but people will soon learn to know that is a much better way of living and join and we will grow larger, any time you want to start im in.

[Black Flag]

Hi......
Well, obviously our idea's of the communes are different to yours bcos we're anarchists and you're communist.
For example , we probably wouldn't go with the mayor idea, and we certainly don't support trade between the communes etc etc.
Also, we don't want any hierarchies, or any centralisation. Also, no state of course. No authority.

From a personal opinion, I think each commune should have it's own means of electing a 'leader'. But this leader should have no power, and just 'advises', and sorts out the little things such as food deliveries from the rural communes, and how and what needs to be produced in the commune.
I think it should be direct-democracy. Since there will only be about a maximum of 200 people per commune, this should be pretty easy. Everyone could meet, try at first to discuss a problem until a solution everyone agrees on is found. If this doesn't work, then everyone can give an option which can be voted on immediately by using simple 'raising of the arm' technique of voting.
No need for ballot papers or anything.
I'm not really into the whole electing a mayor to organise everything for the people. I think the people are capable of organising themselves.

Like I said, this idea is being discussed and formulated at http://groups.msn.com/AnarchistAlliance , so if you are interested in this idea, then please do join the group and start posting ideas and discussing it with other members.


I'll post more later.

P.S
smart girl....are u an Anarchist?

[RedRevolutionary87]

enh they are minor differences and im sure we could get along...the problem with direct democracy sometimes is that things can start gowing nowhere, you spend your time deciding but nothing gets done

[man in the red suit]

what was that crazy group in Oregan during the 80's that made their own little communes? wer'nt they called the Bagwon or something of that nature? There's an idea, you can go into a nearbuybuffet and spray the food with salmonella on election day, that way you can get into power and pop up little communes wherever you want to. wahahahahaha. or not. Communes are the absolute greateset. that is the best idea I have heard on this site(the commune one, not the salmonella one)

[Black Flag]

Thanks alot for your support...it's actually really encouraging to see that people like our idea.......
.......But how many of you really would be serious about participating in this if it ever took off? Bear in mind, it's going to be a dramatic change in lifestyle, and there's going to be alot of risk attached , not too mention alot of commitment.

''enh they are minor differences and im sure we could get along...the problem with direct democracy sometimes is that things can start gowing nowhere, you spend your time deciding but nothing gets done''

I think it can be more efficient. It worked in ancient Greece. People used to gather in the market place, discuss ideas and problems, then come up with a few options which they'd put to the vote. The whole process would be over in an hour or two, which is much much quicker than the bureacratic 'ballot' system, which is slow, and prone to corruption, amongst a load of other problems.
But this is looking ahead too far.
We shouldn't argue about these small diffrences, it's simple for communists and anarchists to co-exist and support each other. We just have to repair relations that are damaged by people like 'Kamo'.
We should also concentrate on talking about the practicalities/how the communes will sustain themselves, rather than looking ahead too far.

Also, check this out:

''Archaeologists agree that cannabis was among the first crops purposely cultivated by human beings at least over 6,000 years ago, and perhaps more than 12,000 years ago.

The most resourceful crop on earth, cannabis yields industrial hemp for canvas, oil, fiber, and paper among other things; a harmless medicine for gravely ill individuals; and a source of recreation for millions of people around the world.

Hemp prohibition is the result of propaganda by the petrochemical, cotton, and wood-based paper industries, who foresaw competition from hemp. Virtually anything that can be made from petroleum can be made from hempseed and other vegetable oils at a much lesser cost, and hemp fiber is many times more durable and resourceful than cotton or wood-based paper. Let's restore our right to grow this resourceful crop!''

Hemp's actually extremely resourceful, and could really help in the communes. I think you can get a license to grow it bcos there are hemp fields in this country.

For more detail on how useful hemp is , check out the site i got the above info from: http://crrh.org/cannabis/

C yaz later

[Black Flag]

Dave.......... You know how we were trying to think of alternatives to petroleum? Well here's the ultimate solution to all the problems!
(From:http://crrh.org/cannabis/biodiesel.html)

Biodiesel
We believe that the main reason hemp is illegal today is because of biodiesel's potential. The first diesel engines (by Rudolph Diesel in 1894) were invented to run on hempseed oil; petroleum wasn't synthesized to mimic hempseed oil for over a decade. Therefore hempseed oil was the primary fuel for automobiles for over 30 years after the invention of the first internal combustion engine.

Entry into the biodiesel market has very low capital entry requirements and is, therefore, not centralized. Among the benefits of using biodiesel:

Start an economic boom!
Use vegetable seed oil (biodiesel).
Run any diesel engine with no engine conversion at all.
Make biodiesel from hemp, soybean, rapeseed/canola and safflower seed oil
Save family farms.
Return economic control to the people!
Naturally decentralize wealth.
Stop global warming.
Stop A lot of toxic pollution.
Create a useful byproduct: food.
Petroleum is Out of Balance; Biodiesel is Sustainable and In Balance.

In comparison, petroleum is capital intensive and, therefore, centralized. To maintain market share, the petroleum industries wanted to prohibit hemp. ''

All we'd have to do is find someone who knows how to reproduce the old diesel engines from the early 1900's when they were all designed to run on hempseed oil.
Shouldn't be that difficult at all. An individual could probably learn how to do it within a few months.

[RedRevolutionary87]

wow that is super good news, we are basicly all set, ill talk to some lawyer friends about how we could pay the elaast amount of tax to the government, and ive yet to see what miguel has to say, i think we have some good shit going. ill be looking up for cheap property in the toronto area.

[komsomol]

Black flag, like any idea is origional nowadays, but good luck with your Communist utopia people.