Theres almost nothing you can do to take down the bastards of united fruit,other than what happened in guatemala b4.Or by armed attack......boith are very risky
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ok, i have been thinking about this for the past week or two, and i havent gotten anywhere with it. now i have come here to post what i read, and see what you all think. this is an excerpt from Understanding Power: The Indespensible Chomsky:
Question: MAN: Do you think it would help to undermine corporate power were to begin making consumer choices that directly affect companies like United Fruit [renamed Chiquita], which are most actively involoved in exploiting Third World countries-like, stop buying their bananas, say stop buying their coffee?
ANSWER: NOAM: Again, if only a few people do it, it isn't going to have any effect-it just means that some guy picking bananas in East Costa Rica isn't going to have enoug money to feed his children tomorrow. But if it's done on a large enough scale that it can have an impact on the corporate structure, sure, then it could mean something....
Q:WOMAN:Would you ever advocate a boycott as a tactic, though, assuming that it was coordinated and on a large enough scale?
A:NOAM: Well, tactics depend on the specific situations you're faced with-I don't think you can say very much worthwhile about them in the abstract. So, there might be a particular movement when a boycott of something would be helpful. But as a general matter, I don't think they really make a lot of sense, frankly.
I mean, suppose we got millions of people to stop buying: what would happen? The economic system barely functions as it is-I mean, the contemporary economic system is a complete catastrophe, an absolutely catastrophic failure. For instance, the International Labor Organization recently gave its latest estimate of unemployment worldwide-"unemployment" they define as meaning not having enough work to meet a subsistence level, so maybe you can sell some handkerchiefs at a street corner or something, but you don't have enough work to survive on your own. They estimate that at about 30 percent of the world's population-which makes it a lot worse than the Great Depression. Alright? Now, there's a ton of work to be done in the world-everywhere you look there's work that ought to be done. And the people who don't have work would be delighted to do it. So what you've got is a huge number of idle hands, as vast amount of work that ought to be done, and an economic system that is incapable of putting those two things together. Okay, absolutley catasrophic failure. Boycotss caren't going to overcome that failure, they're just going to make it worse.
So you know, they may be worthwhile as a tactic at some point, but what's really required is just a complete rethinking of the entire nature of economic interactions and structures-there really is no other way to overcome this whole massive failure of the economy.
ME: so, is the personal boycotting of coffee that is not fair trade coffee ok, or does it just mean that a coffee farmer a few thousand miles away is not going to be able to feed his family tomorrow?
(Edited by abstractmentality at 10:51 am on Aug. 2, 2002)
(Edited by abstractmentality at 5:06 pm on Aug. 2, 2002)
"...in our kiss we taste revolution." - The (International) Noise Conspiracy
"The world is full of ideologies that claim to offer freedom, but in reality simply offer us bigger cages and longer chains. The demand for an end to cages and chains may seem idealistic to some people, but the real idealists are those who think we can carry on as we are." - Larry Law
Third World Forum
Students for Justice in Palestine - Davis
Theres almost nothing you can do to take down the bastards of united fruit,other than what happened in guatemala b4.Or by armed attack......boith are very risky
"It is we the workers who built these palaces and cities here in Spain and in America and everywhere. We, the workers, can build others to take their place. And better ones! We are not in the least afraid of ruins. " - Buenaventura Durutti
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Yeah, it's really a catch-22 for both corp and employer. And what is to prevent the corp in selling a different product in place of the one boycotted? But in order to break the system, it really HAS to be done on a mass level where financial destruction of the corp is inevitable. I would say as a concession, boycott the corporation because of its practices. They have to know why they are being boycotted, not to have them think their product sucks, but rather that they suck. Personally, in all good conscousness, I cannot use products where I know they is violations in basic human rights or environment.
Chomsky's answer about United Fruit wasn't very complete. I can--and do--refuse to buy Chiquita bananas. Does that mean that certain farmers can't feed their kids anymore? No. Everytime I buy bananas, I am making a choice. If I buy brand A, I can help feed farmer A's children. If I buy brand B, I'm feeding farmer B's children. In other words, a boycott of Chiquita on a small scale would only harm farmers if you refused to buy all bananas.
Lindsay
\"He\'s an idiot. But he\'s our idiot.\"
I boycott starbucks, macdonalds, all that kind of stuff (oh yeah and esso, well i persuade anyone driving me to, i don't have a liscence). i also try to buy fair trade and eat organic whever possible but this leads to the dilemma you guys are takling about. if i boycott this then someone will go hungry, etc. i was talking to a distant relation of mine. he's a small scale farmer in England, and most farmers are having problems after foot and mouth, and BSE. there is tlak of the foot and mouth being a laboratory strain and all the facts sdon't add up, it looks like the government are involved, it's quite interesting.
anyway, basically alot of people buy organic food from abroad, which defies the point of helping the environment if you think of the petrol that it's taken to get the food here,and also it's letting down english farmers who need all the support they can get.
so what do you do? It's all so damn complicated. I guess you just follow your conscience.
The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them. ~Karl Marx
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well, i personally dont drink coffee, but i do drink spiced chai tea, and when i do, its not from starbucks. if i know that i dont agree with where something that im buying is coming from, then i wont buy...by the way, do you know of any internet info on the stuff you were talking about, that sounds interesting.
IWDY: good response. thank you. for some odd reason i never thought of it that way. and now it seems as though i was thinking about it in completely the wrong way.
Paris: im in agreement with you as well. thank you for your response.
"...in our kiss we taste revolution." - The (International) Noise Conspiracy
"The world is full of ideologies that claim to offer freedom, but in reality simply offer us bigger cages and longer chains. The demand for an end to cages and chains may seem idealistic to some people, but the real idealists are those who think we can carry on as we are." - Larry Law
Third World Forum
Students for Justice in Palestine - Davis
