BNP

[redrogue]

I spoke to a BNP supporter who said his party was not about Nazi Fascism, but about democracy. He supports them because he doesn't want "indigenous brits to become an ethnic minority in their own country". But, he said he was not a Nazi, Fascist or Holacaust Denier.

Thoughts Guys?

[bolshevik butcher]

The BNP has in recnet years tried to rebrand itself and move away from its image as neo-nazis in order to remove the stigma that has been attatched to the far right. As New Labour has moved to the right and alienated much of its traditional working class support the BNP has spotted a "gap in the market" and began to orientate towards a right populist agenda. This has seen them gain a fair bit of support and some strongholds in working class areas that have become vunerable to the far right as they seem to offer a solution and an alternative in the absense of a stron gowkring class movement.

However, the core ideas and principles of the BNP remain in place. While they have abbandoned the swaztikas formally, and their leaders now wear suits and call white people indigenous Brits it doesn't change the fact that they are an axuilary force of the ruling class used to divide the working class and smash class unity. As such socialists must organise and oppose the BNP in the same way that they did the national fron before.

Where about in Scotland are you from? I live in Edinburgh myself.

[Dr Mindbender]

a party which allocates freedom of speech and patronige rights on the basis of skin colour is not a democratic one.

[Colonello Buendia]

Three scots one forum, any Glaswegians?

anyway the BNP like that original Nazi party preyes on the working class by blaming their poverty on Jews and other ethnic minorities. I remember hearing a quote, " anti-semitism is the socialism of fools"

[Red_Hooligan]

You spoke to a BNP supporter? You should have sent his skull to the concrete instead.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by Red_Hooligan@October 30, 2007 06:55 pm
You spoke to a BNP supporter? You should have sent his skull to the concrete instead.

Not wise. Better to let them get the 1st attack in. Otherwise its us thats the thugs.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by redrogue@October 30, 2007 02:23 pm
I spoke to a BNP supporter who said his party was not about Nazi Fascism, but about democracy. He supports them because he doesn't want "indigenous brits to become an ethnic minority in their own country". But, he said he was not a Nazi, Fascist or Holacaust Denier.

Thoughts Guys?

90% of the BNPs membership is made up of decent working class men and women who are pissed off, for legitimate reasons...

Flooding of immigrants IS a bad thing, for the immigrants, and for the indigenous worker - Particularly when the immigrants are skilled doctors and Nurces from Africa or elsewhere in the third world. It is however, good for capitalism, as it provides cheap labour. As Communists we recognise that the best solution is solidarity with the immigrant workforce, as we have the same enemy, and the same interests.

Most of the people sucked into the BNP could also probably agree with our standpoint if we got to them first. The BNP have done a lot to shed the old image as Butcher has said, they even have Pakistani counsellors.

However...

[spartan]

The BNP have done a lot to shed the old image as Butcher has said, they even have Pakistani counsellors.

They also have a female Jewish counsellor and in one of their general election party broadcasts on TV they had a Sikh telling us why he was going to vote BNP because of Muslim immigration!

At the end of that party broadcast Griffin was standing looking at a spitfire, obviously to make people think of them as different from the Nazis that they are rightfully protrayed as, but i bet you that deep down, that **** Griffen, wished he was looking at a Messerschmit :angry:

[Vanguard1917]

Originally posted by William Everard@October 30, 2007 10:51 pm
90% of the BNPs membership is made up of decent working class men and women who are pissed off, for legitimate reasons...

No. Maybe you could say that about the majority of their voters (disillusioned former Labour voters who now vote BNP - i.e. the 'socialism of fools&#39, but 90% of their members? No way.

Flooding of immigrants IS a bad thing, for the immigrants

'Flooding'??

And, no, coming to this country clearly isn't a 'bad thing' for the immigrants who come here - which is why they come here. Who are you to tell them that it's bad for them?

and for the indigenous worker -

Immigration is a 'bad thing' for the 'indigenous worker'? (I'm assuming you mean for workers of British nationality.) Would you like to provide some evidence for this?

It is however, good for capitalism, as it provides cheap labour.

Yes, this can have some short-term benefit for capitalist profitability. But the mass mobility of the international proletariat benefits us more than it does capitalism. Which is why capitalists have been historically been so hostile to it.

As Communists we recognise that the best solution is solidarity with the immigrant workforce

Best solution to what? Mass immigration?

Most of the people sucked into the BNP could also probably agree with our standpoint if we got to them first.

Yes, especially if you parrot the standpoint of the BNP.

[redrogue]

Originally posted by bolshevik butcher@October 30, 2007 03:21 pm
Where about in Scotland are you from? I live in Edinburgh myself.

M8, I'm from Edinburgh too!

[Colonello Buendia]

I would like to think that The BNP are just dissilusioned labour voters but often it's just messed up kids in their youth groups. Basically like us with the wrong ideas

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by redrogue@October 30, 2007 02:23 pm
I spoke to a BNP supporter who said his party was not about Nazi Fascism, but about democracy. He supports them because he doesn't want "indigenous brits to become an ethnic minority in their own country". But, he said he was not a Nazi, Fascist or Holacaust Denier.

Thoughts Guys?

Obviously he's going to deny it, its all part of their 'cloak of respectibility'.

Of course whenever the cameras are off out come the combats and knuckle dusters.

[lvleph]

And the Green Nazi Party are not racists.

[Cencus]

Originally posted by redrogue@October 30, 2007 02:23 pm
I spoke to a BNP supporter who said his party was not about Nazi Fascism, but about democracy. He supports them because he doesn't want "indigenous brits to become an ethnic minority in their own country". But, he said he was not a Nazi, Fascist or Holacaust Denier.

Thoughts Guys?

I think he's another fucking idiot who has been suckered in to racist way. "indigenous brits? Who the hell are they? We've been invaded by the Romans, the Vikings, The french [normans] and just about every other nation that could put two boats together has nibbled at the coast and to some degree settled or at least left thier seed behind. But of coarse these nasty foreign invaders never make it into the BNP literature[a very loose use of the term]. What they mean is they don't want to have anyone who is muslim or has a slightly different skin tone in. "Indigenous Brits" my arse racist little fucks.

The BNP learned that thier message of outright message of hate was gettin em nowhere so they finally got media savvy and hid the message in euphanisms. Theres alkways been strong tribalism in the working class, and the BNP just taps into that, but they are still nothing more than a fringe party when compared to Le Penn's crew or the Nazi parties elsewhere in Europe.


Btw I'm from Edinburgh too

[Antifa Kitty]

The BNP has in recnet years tried to rebrand itself and move away from its image as neo-nazis in order to remove the stigma that has been attatched to the far right. As New Labour has moved to the right and alienated much of its traditional working class support the BNP has spotted a "gap in the market" and began to orientate towards a right populist agenda. This has seen them gain a fair bit of support and some strongholds in working class areas that have become vunerable to the far right as they seem to offer a solution and an alternative in the absense of a stron gowkring class movement.

The good news out of all this is that while the new "kinder and gentler" BNP is gathering support from some of the disgruntled white working class, the BNP is actually alienating their usual hardcore support. The story is that Griffin is cashing in on the Islamophobic mood in the country and has taken money from extreme Zionist groups in the UK, which has made all the anti-semites leave in disgust. He's even had to sack some of them. The BNP is purging itself of its most loyal racists and anti-semites in order to shed its old image - that's not done just for show, they're genuinely a party in crisis. Not to mention the other financial trouble they are having with money belonging to members going missing.

Also I'd disagree about the core ideas and principles being the same. The party has actually changed quite a lot since Griffin's been in charge, and like I say, they've expelled most of their hardcore supporters. Griffin will do anything for money or votes because he's a shameless opportunist with no principles whatsoever - he's just a career politician like all the rest of them. Even John Tyndall was warning people that Griffin was only in it for himself and would destroy the BNP.

[Red_Hooligan]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+October 30, 2007 07:13 pm--> (Ulster Socialist @ October 30, 2007 07:13 pm)

Red_Hooligan

@October 30, 2007 06:55 pm
You spoke to a BNP supporter? You should have sent his skull to the concrete instead.

Not wise. Better to let them get the 1st attack in. Otherwise its us thats the thugs. [/b]

I doubt you'll be saying that if shit starts escalating again. I don't care if we're perceived as "thugs" for attacking fascists; if we're always on the defensive, we won't be able to make progress against them. That's warfare 101. As an anti-fascist, and especially as a Marxist/anarchist, you should be willing able to route them whenever the opportunity presents itself.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by William Everard+October 30, 2007 10:51 pm--> (William Everard @ October 30, 2007 10:51 pm)

redrogue

@October 30, 2007 02:23 pm
I spoke to a BNP supporter who said his party was not about Nazi Fascism, but about democracy. He supports them because he doesn't want "indigenous brits to become an ethnic minority in their own country". But, he said he was not a Nazi, Fascist or Holacaust Denier.

Thoughts Guys?

90% of the BNPs membership is made up of decent working class men and women who are pissed off, for legitimate reasons...

Flooding of immigrants IS a bad thing, for the immigrants, and for the indigenous worker - Particularly when the immigrants are skilled doctors and Nurces from Africa or elsewhere in the third world. It is however, good for capitalism, as it provides cheap labour. As Communists we recognise that the best solution is solidarity with the immigrant workforce, as we have the same enemy, and the same interests.

Most of the people sucked into the BNP could also probably agree with our standpoint if we got to them first. The BNP have done a lot to shed the old image as Butcher has said, they even have Pakistani counsellors.

However... [/b]

good work comrade, your analysis has actually gotten worse.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by bolshevik butcher@October 30, 2007 03:21 pm
The BNP has in recnet years tried to rebrand itself and move away from its image as neo-nazis in order to remove the stigma that has been attatched to the far right. As New Labour has moved to the right and alienated much of its traditional working class support the BNP has spotted a "gap in the market" and began to orientate towards a right populist agenda. This has seen them gain a fair bit of support and some strongholds in working class areas that have become vunerable to the far right as they seem to offer a solution and an alternative in the absense of a stron gowkring class movement.

Do you believe the BNP's new pr move has anything to do with the way British anti-fascists such as Red Action gave them such a hiding?

I have some good English comrades who are former Red Action members and they told me some stories about fighting them. Apparently RA used to battle C18 at Republican marches they would steward,s uch as bloody sunday commemorations. The fash would show up ready to attack the Republicans in those days.

[socialistpunk]

i agree the only reason they rebrand themselves is to get more support from the people who are ignorant to there past extrematies and violence theres no way they are non-facist if they have people from groups such as blood and honour speaking at there rallys

[jaffe]

Do you believe the BNP's new pr move has anything to do with the way British anti-fascists such as Red Action gave them such a hiding?

Yes

But I don't know if it was a good thing, yes the bullieboys were smashed from the streets but in those days they didn't manage to get voted in a lot. Now a days they've got a lot of councilers.