Jiggawuh?
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[STUDY GROUP] towards a dialectical epoch
it is with disgust that one is subjected to midiocre that communist of our days presents. i would like real communist to aid our fellow Africans in their harsh material conditions. Challenges facing us is the CApitalist approach of eroding scientific analysis from communist how do we counter such tgreat?
Jiggawuh?
GLS/SS d- s-:- a- C+++ P+ L+++ W+++ w-- PS+++ PE t R+++ tv+ b+ D++ e+++ h+ r---
The admin-mod team lacks standards.
"[...]driving down the highway screaming 'Ploterait of the world, unite!'."
Lose the 'dialectical' comrade.
Here is why:
http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic...st&p=1292152741
And lose the "French socialism" while you're at it, too.
"A new centrist project does not have to repeat these mistakes. Nobody in this topic is advocating a carbon copy of the Second International (which again was only partly centrist)." (Tjis, class-struggle anarchist)
"A centrist strategy is based on patience, and building a movement or party or party-movement through deploying various instruments, which I think should include: workplace organising, housing struggles [...] and social services [...] and a range of other activities such as sports and culture. These are recruitment and retention tools that allow for a platform for political education." (Tim Cornelis, left-communist)
Since when have I proposed otherwise?
In your PM discussions with me, you're still stuck in aspiring to "French socialism" when clearly "Russian socialism" (EDIT: 20th-century Russian socialism) is a superior starting point... even for criticism.
Last edited by Die Neue Zeit; 12th January 2008 at 23:07.
"A new centrist project does not have to repeat these mistakes. Nobody in this topic is advocating a carbon copy of the Second International (which again was only partly centrist)." (Tjis, class-struggle anarchist)
"A centrist strategy is based on patience, and building a movement or party or party-movement through deploying various instruments, which I think should include: workplace organising, housing struggles [...] and social services [...] and a range of other activities such as sports and culture. These are recruitment and retention tools that allow for a platform for political education." (Tim Cornelis, left-communist)
If "Russian socialism" is the blend of individual terrorism, populist nonsense, slavophilia, and utilitarian "philosophy" that pestered the country during the XIX century, I would stick to "French socialism", thank you.In your PM discussions with me, you're still stuck in aspiring to "French socialism" when clearly "Russian socialism" is a superior starting point... even for criticism.
Luís Henrique
The world is not as it is, but as it is constructed.
Falsely attributed to Lenin
JR:
Not so; I defy you to find where I said that.
Rosa, I think your PM isn't working well. I reminded you today via PM of what you said earlier, unless you give me permission to divulge that brief material in this thread.
Not at all. I define 20th-century Russian socialism (sorry for my lack of clarification regarding the timeframe) to encompass both Bolshevik and non-Bolshevik revolutionary sentiment and activity in 1917 - and shortly thereafter. The best example of non-Bolshevik revolutionary activity is the formation of factory committees (and their tragic demise during the Russian Civil War), while Lenin and co., having gone parliamentarian re. the earlier Duma elections and the upcoming Constituent Assembly, were too focused on "All power to the [recreated--but-from-above-by-the-Mensheviks] soviets!"
[Not that soviets in and of themselves are a bad thing, but they were resurrected "by a group of liberal and radical intellectuals who got together on February 27th and constituted themselves the 'Executive Committee of the Petrograd Soviet.'"]
As for 19th-century Russian socialism, Bolshevik anti-terrorism and anti-populism is just like French socialism getting past Jean-Jacques Rousseau and going into the works of Babeuf, Blanqui, and Proudhon.
Last edited by Die Neue Zeit; 12th January 2008 at 23:12.
"A new centrist project does not have to repeat these mistakes. Nobody in this topic is advocating a carbon copy of the Second International (which again was only partly centrist)." (Tjis, class-struggle anarchist)
"A centrist strategy is based on patience, and building a movement or party or party-movement through deploying various instruments, which I think should include: workplace organising, housing struggles [...] and social services [...] and a range of other activities such as sports and culture. These are recruitment and retention tools that allow for a platform for political education." (Tim Cornelis, left-communist)
Yes, and here is what I said:
And if you look at your PM to me (to which this was a reply), you referred to utopian french socialism-- to which I was counterposing the above.
JR:
And as you pointed out too, one can look to this communist current for inspiration without appropriating it in its entirety.Simple reason: To distance scientific socialism further from utopian-socialist (French socialism) and non-materialist influences (dialectics). Also, British political economy is too outdated to cough up a more modern economic analysis.
Indeed, I think.
[My basic point is that the old French socialism isn't a good starting point for inspiration and critique anymore, with all its vagueness and high idealism. Because I didn't clarify earlier, Luis mistook my new base - Russian socialism - as being that of the 19th century. In my "Revamp of Lenin's 'Three Sources'" PMs to several posters on this board - yourself included - I also included Italian socialism.
"A new centrist project does not have to repeat these mistakes. Nobody in this topic is advocating a carbon copy of the Second International (which again was only partly centrist)." (Tjis, class-struggle anarchist)
"A centrist strategy is based on patience, and building a movement or party or party-movement through deploying various instruments, which I think should include: workplace organising, housing struggles [...] and social services [...] and a range of other activities such as sports and culture. These are recruitment and retention tools that allow for a platform for political education." (Tim Cornelis, left-communist)
Maybe so, maybe not -- but one certainly cannot ignore it.
Then how come utopian socialism (which wasn't ignored by Marx) was ignored by the second- and third-generation (Kautsky and Plekhanov for the second; Connolly, Liebknecht, Luxemburg, and of course Lenin for the third) Marxists?
"A new centrist project does not have to repeat these mistakes. Nobody in this topic is advocating a carbon copy of the Second International (which again was only partly centrist)." (Tjis, class-struggle anarchist)
"A centrist strategy is based on patience, and building a movement or party or party-movement through deploying various instruments, which I think should include: workplace organising, housing struggles [...] and social services [...] and a range of other activities such as sports and culture. These are recruitment and retention tools that allow for a platform for political education." (Tim Cornelis, left-communist)
JR:
Well, those others will have to speak for themselves (I certainly cannot), but Marx also 'did not ignore' a whole host of other popular and not-so-popular movements.
We have to pick and choose too.
