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I have been wondering are "Marxist-Leninists" only the Stalinists, Maoists, Castroists, (some Trots), etc? In other words, if I agree with Marx's and Lenin's theories, can I call myself a Marxist-Leninist while not being Stalinist or Trotskyist (and of course considering we live in the era of imperialism)?
I considered this more after reading this site: Communist Voice
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"Settle your quarrels, come together, understand the reality of our situation, understand that fascism is already here, that people are dying who could be saved, that generations more will live poor butchered half-lives if you fail to act. Do what must be done, discover your humanity and your love in revolution." - George Jackson
Stalinism, Maoism and Castroism all have their different interpertations of Marxism and Leninism, i would only call myself one of these groups if i agreed with all their policies. Stalinism is quite different from marxism, a high level of beurocracy and a dictatorship for example
hasta la victoria siempre
I am a Marxist-Leninist who upholds the Soviet Union up to the Khrushchevite counter-revolution, and then I look at it very critically. I uphold the People's Republic of China until Dengist revisionism liquidated the socialist mode of production. I also uphold Socialist Albania and Socialist Vietnam until revisionist rot corrupted them. And finally, I uphold the Democratic Peoples' Republic of Korea (while many argue they advocate a nationalist theory, Juche happens to have a Marxist-Leninist origin, and this is why I look favorably on the D.P.R.K., though criticize them as well in instances of their personality cult view of the Kims, how they did not concentrate enough on agriculture and could have grown crops suited to their latitudes and climates) and Socialist Cuba (though I criticize how Cuba made serious mistakes in the past, namely: pursuing sugar monoculture, not developing enough large-scale production to remove their dependence on the U.S.S.R.- although the blame also falls on the Khrushchevites as well) as of currently, and look positively on Belarus and Venezuela, yet reserve some serious criticisms as to the political and economic character of both countries.
I hate to divide the theory into tendencies of "Castroism," "Hoxhaism," "Maoism," "Orthodox Leninism," and especially "Stalinism." Different material conditions in different countries in different periods of history called for different methods. There is no "one-size fits all" formula to how to approach communism: that is dogma. I look positively on the Trots and the Anarchists as fighters towards the common goal of stateless communism; it's only the theoretical question of how to get there and the historical actions of their leaders that bothers me.
Define "dictatorship." All Marxists subscribe to a dictatorship of the proletariat.
Trotskyism is not Marxism-Leninism!
"Love Other Human Beings like you would Yourself"
-- Ho Chi Minh
"We Don't Care who gets elected, because whoever it is will be Overthrown"
-- Subcomandante Marcos
I'm sorry, but no, trotskyism is simple revisionism. In no way is trotskyism Marxist Leninism.
我们的原则是党指挥枪，而决不容许枪指挥党.
If the above two posts are directed towards me, I agree that Trotskyism is not Marxism-Leninism but one of the trends of revisionism. That is why I said, "it's only the theoretical question of how to get there and the historical actions of their leaders that bothers me." I don't have any problem against Trots personally (or Anarchists either).
go to church for fuck sakes with all your damn "ISMS"
we need more revolutions and less "isms"
(emphasis mine)
Trotskyism, if that term indeed has any meaning, is not only a Marxist-Leninist ideology, but is considered by those who accept it to be the continuation and development of orthodox Leninism. The term "Marxism-Leninism" just happens to have been co-opted by Stalinists and Maoists.
And I wish you wouldn't use the term "Trots". Just a pet peeve of mine, regardless of any associated slander it might contain.
I think we should avoid using the term "Trot". It causes an unnecessary level of conflict.
And, Comrade CriticizeEverythingAlways, I agree with everything you said, except the issue of North Korea.
I view Juche as a serious deviation from Marxism-Leninism, and I feel that it arose as a result of specific social conditions in North Korea. North Korea is not a dictatorship of the proletariat any more. The ruling-party, led by Kim Jong-Il, has successfully established itself as a national-bourgeois ruling-class.
As such, North Korea has long ceased to be a dictatorship of the proletariat. However, I support North Korean resistance to First World imperialism, as I would support any other Third-world power resisting Imperialism (Iran for instance).
"Yes, the brutalities of progress are called revolutions. When they are over, this fact is recognized---that the human race has been treated harshly, but it has progressed."
(Victor Hugo, in "Les Miserables")
Join me in discussing the rise of revolutionary anti-imperialist movements worldwide and in the India-Pakistan region, on my blog:
www.wrathofhephaestus.wordpress.com
Well thats all splendid comrades, but can someone reply to my former post?
I see myself as a non-Trotskyist, non-Stalinist (or Maoist) Marxist-Leninist who opposes capitalism in all its forms. I put Marx's and Lenin's theories together and get "Marxism-Leninism." Oh, and I see the October Revolution as the only proletarian revolution in history.
Kasama Project- We Are the Ones
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"Settle your quarrels, come together, understand the reality of our situation, understand that fascism is already here, that people are dying who could be saved, that generations more will live poor butchered half-lives if you fail to act. Do what must be done, discover your humanity and your love in revolution." - George Jackson
To directly respond to the question:
Yes, you can label yourself a Marxist-Leninist without having to use sub-labels such as Maoism, Hoxhaism, Trotskyism or whateverism. They are many times contributions to the Marxist-Leninist theory (arguably right or not that does not mater).
Of course i think you wont hold such a 'label' for long cause you will be confronted with questions such as 'at what point did the Soviet Union degenerate' and especially 'why did the Soviet Union degenerate'. And the response you will have towards such specific historical questions mostly determines your later development towards a certain current (as happened with me). Because these historical questions also partly determine the ideology you develop around it. For example, Maoists are in support of a Cultural Revolution. A theory that developed out of the dispute between the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China (Of course i could go more in-depth on this, but i doubt there is a necessity at this point).
“We think too small, like the frog at the bottom of the well. He thinks the sky is only as big as the top of the well. If he surfaced, he would have an entirely different view.” - Mao Tse-Tung
| NCPN | Voorwaarts! | WFDY |
Well yes when confronted with such questions I would formulate my positions according to what I think happened.
I never try to reject anything completely, I think it is important to take from something what is necessary and discard what is not necessary or useful.
Kasama Project- We Are the Ones
South Asia Revolution - Information Project
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"Settle your quarrels, come together, understand the reality of our situation, understand that fascism is already here, that people are dying who could be saved, that generations more will live poor butchered half-lives if you fail to act. Do what must be done, discover your humanity and your love in revolution." - George Jackson
That link was in my profile, and it took you this long to visit that site? "Shame" on you, sir!
The term "Marxist-Leninist" sounds almost agglutinative that it doesn't sound good. A select few around here prefer the term "Leninist Marxist" (affirming the Marxist roots while subscribing primarily to Lenin's interpretations of said roots).
Last, but not least, to be a genuine "Leninist Marxist," you'd have to be very critical of the Bolshevik era, as well (you should start with the sellout of the Finnish proletariat). I daresay that "Leninist Marxism" (revolutionary Marxism in general) is further left of official Marxism-Leninism (Stalinism), Bolshevik-Leninism (Trotskyism), and Maoism than many of us here think (while not necessarily going as far left as the left-communists).
http://en.internationalism.org/ir/96/leninists
http://en.internationalism.org/ir/97/leninists2
"A new centrist project does not have to repeat these mistakes. Nobody in this topic is advocating a carbon copy of the Second International (which again was only partly centrist)." (Tjis, class-struggle anarchist)
"A centrist strategy is based on patience, and building a movement or party or party-movement through deploying various instruments, which I think should include: workplace organising, housing struggles [...] and social services [...] and a range of other activities such as sports and culture. These are recruitment and retention tools that allow for a platform for political education." (Tim Cornelis, left-communist)
Actually, I had visited that site a lot sooner before.
And of course, everyone here knows that I am highly critical of the Bolshevik-era.
I suppose I am looking for a label that can I best identify with, and Hammer's 'Leninist Marxism' seems to fit that, as I am very political close to Hammer.
Kasama Project- We Are the Ones
South Asia Revolution - Information Project
Kasama Threads
"Settle your quarrels, come together, understand the reality of our situation, understand that fascism is already here, that people are dying who could be saved, that generations more will live poor butchered half-lives if you fail to act. Do what must be done, discover your humanity and your love in revolution." - George Jackson
With Hammer's definition in mind, "Leninist Marxist" seems to fit better than "Marxist-Leninist" (considering I don't subscribe to 'stalinist' principles). Leninist Marxist fits better, will use that.Originally posted by Hammer+August 01, 2007 10:37 pm--> (Hammer @ August 01, 2007 10:37 pm)That link was in my profile, and it took you this long to visit that site? "Shame" on you, sir!
The term "Marxist-Leninist" sounds almost agglutinative that it doesn't sound good. A select few around here prefer the term "Leninist Marxist" (affirming the Marxist roots while subscribing primarily to Lenin's interpretations of said roots).
Last, but not least, to be a genuine "Leninist Marxist," you'd have to be very critical of the Bolshevik era, as well (you should start with the sellout of the Finnish proletariat). I daresay that "Leninist Marxism" (revolutionary Marxism in general) is further left of official Marxism-Leninism (Stalinism), Bolshevik-Leninism (Trotskyism), and Maoism than many of us here think (while not necessarily going as far left as the left-communists).
http://en.internationalism.org/ir/96/leninists
http://en.internationalism.org/ir/97/leninists2 [/b]
[FONT=Verdana]The "special coercive force" for the suppression of the proletariat by the bourgeoisie, of millions of working people by handfuls of the rich, must be replaced by a "special coercive force " for the suppression of the bourgeoisie by the proletariat (dictatorship of the proletariat). [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]
-Vladimir Ilyich Lenin [The State and Revolution][/FONT]
This is a somewhat difficult issue as both Trotskists and Stalinists argue that Lenin was in full agreement with the interpretations and policies associated with these respective ideologies and use quotes from Lenin's works to support this position.
I don't want to divert the focus of this thread, but how then, would you describe the Spanish Revolution of 1936? The resulting society is often cited as an example of workers' self management (WSM) and liberation - what was the class character of this society?
That revolutoin did'nt follow really Marxist ideology, and it was'nt done strictly by Marxists, but it definately was a true workers revolution (both peasent and proletarian).
Also I've heard Castroist before, but I never really knew it was an actualy ideology, just something that Capitalist Media can label anything Latin American and Leftist :P.
Although I"m not at all an expert on the subject, I have heard Stalinists use Marxist-Leninist to discribe themselves as if it was an exclusive term for them, but I've also heard the term used many times by Leninists who oppose Stalin, so I guess it just depends who your talking too.
The real answer is, what does it matter? Whether or not a given theory is "real" such-and-so-ism is only of historical and philosophical interest, and not even much of that. It is surely of no practical importance? So unless you can show why in a specific case we have a reason to care about this question, I don't see why you should worry about it.
"Hmm... Which shall I choose?"
"Sir, have you tried out our trotskyism?"
"No, I haven't"
"Here"
"Hmm... I don't know, I don't like Trotsky too much..."
"How about some Stalinism or maoism?"
"They're... not what i'm looking for..."
"Hmm... perhaps you'd like some of our original marxism-leninism?"
"Sounds good. I'd rather take the original"
I call this play, "Shopping for ideologies".
"El ideal del P.S.O.E. es la completa emancipación de la clase trabajadora; Es decir, la abolición de todas las clases sociales y su declaración y conversión en una sola clase de trabajadores, dueños del fruto de su trabajo, libres, iguales, honrados e inteligentes." -Pablo Iglesias (founder of PSOE and UGT)
"Quienes contraponen liberalismo y socialismo, o no conocen el primero o no saben los verdaderos objetivos del segundo." -Pablo Iglesias
Art. 1.º España es una República democrática de trabajadores de toda clase, que se
organiza en régimen de Libertad y de Justicia.
"Trotskyism" and "Anti-revisonism" are labels that arose from historical circumstances and are irrelevant anymore.
Its just a way of slinging shit at each other for things that don't exist anymore.
Formerly dada
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