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What do you do with ex-fascists who want to turn leftist?
Erm, nothing?
I thought about how open or closed the left should be to ex-fascists.
So exactly how many ex-fascist converts are there? I mean, it isn't like there are so many that we can't take it case by case. How do you convert like that anyway?
Actually, does anyone have a really good conversion story?
Innumerable discussion circles are knit together by mobile people who carry opinions from one to another, and struggle for the power of larger command. - C Wright Mills, The Power Elite
I had crazy opinions in primary school, but they were not fascist, rather puritan.
I burned condoms at school and murdered a magazine with a bikini girl on the front, with the help of my mini-tractor.
Most other guys at school (I am from the countryside, or rather the Swedish equivalent to "Rocky Mountains") were dressing in hiphop clothes, listening to white power music as well as Offspring (interpreting Pretty Fly as a hiphop anthem). There were also lots of 25 year+ outside of the school, paying the female classmates with beer in return for sex.
I was comparably "normal" I guess.
ive actually met one. A guy from Glasgow who used to go to NF marches and the like, then he saw the error of his ways and started going to SSP meetings. He was a great guy,I met him at marxism 2001 and whenever I bumped into him he'd buy me a beer.
Wasnt there a BNP defector who got beat up by his own 'comrades' which made him sick of their violent tendencies and so he acted as an ANL double agent to help film an undercover documentary a few years back?
What is a mini-tractor?
Also "Pretty Fly" as a hip-hop anthem. :P
Are we talking like full on Fascist party members and skin's here? Or young teenagers seeing the error of their ways?
When I was 14-15, and I got into metal, a bloke I knew got me into the more neo-nazi-ish and white power\rascist elements of it, aswell as flirtations with Nazi imagery and rhetoric, anti-antisemitism etc. At the time, I knew the world was fucked, and I knew I wanted it fixed, just, these guys got too me before the left did, and, they proposed, what, was in my mind as a 14\15 year old, "Radical" change, so I went along with it for a while, as some sort of sick rebellion against the 'mainstream' of everything really. Luckily for me, when it came to really concrete stuff, I tended to sympathize with much more leftist views without even knowing it, and, then somehow, I managed to do this big turn around and switch to "Communism", do a whole lot of reading and make myself into an informed and usefull member of the left
I think that show's that not everyone who flirts with, sympathizes with or get's caught up in Fascist crap, deserves to be wholly written off forever. I certainly know alot of "right wing" teenagers who are, bassically, just pissed off at the world and use it as an outlet.
Word. I used to read books by Pat Buchanan. But after reading Marx I decided that Communism made more sense.Originally posted by SpikeyRed@July 26, 2007 05:02 am
Are we talking like full on Fascist party members and skin's here? Or young teenagers seeing the error of their ways?
When I was 14-15, and I got into metal, a bloke I knew got me into the more neo-nazi-ish and white power\rascist elements of it, aswell as flirtations with Nazi imagery and rhetoric, anti-antisemitism etc. At the time, I knew the world was fucked, and I knew I wanted it fixed, just, these guys got too me before the left did, and, they proposed, what, was in my mind as a 14\15 year old, "Radical" change, so I went along with it for a while, as some sort of sick rebellion against the 'mainstream' of everything really. Luckily for me, when it came to really concrete stuff, I tended to sympathize with much more leftist views without even knowing it, and, then somehow, I managed to do this big turn around and switch to "Communism", do a whole lot of reading and make myself into an informed and usefull member of the left
I think that show's that not everyone who flirts with, sympathizes with or get's caught up in Fascist crap, deserves to be wholly written off forever. I certainly know alot of "right wing" teenagers who are, bassically, just pissed off at the world and use it as an outlet
i disagree with spikey red. I think peoples politics do change, and if its possible to win people over from any persuasion, be it fascist or not then they deserve a second chance.
Its this attitude that puts us on a moral pedestal over the reactionaries.
Fascism is a disease that targets impressionable frustrated angst-ridden white male teenagers more than anyone else. Most who fall to the disease do not go around talking about it, but keep it deep within themselves, and I can guarentee you that for every one poster on Stormfront, there are 10 kids who are reading the online propaganda and falling sway to it, just not enough to become an actual part of it.
Not only should we welcome the kids who see what bullshit it is, we should make active efforts to get them out of it. Setting up websites debunking their fallacies is a good start. But the sites need to take it from the angle of these teenagers, they need to speak to angst ridden teens about what is really fucking up human society (capitalism) and tell them how fascism takes their frustration against the enemy they dont understand and pins it on racial or ethnic groups.
Alot of their frustration comes from the same place as ours does, but they are less educated (their usually 14 years old, going through the mind-numbing experiance of high school), so they can fall sway to people who blame the ills of capitalism or imperialism on the Jews, immigrants, et cetera.
What they need is education.
Im not talking about the much rarer case, the fully fledged violent skin, but the kids who have the potential to become one of these. We have to remember that they also have the potential to become a revolutionary at the same time, and we have to help them on their way.
<span style=\'color:red\'>Liberty without Socialism is privilege, injustice; Socialism without Liberty is Slavery and Brutality.
-Mikhail Bakunin</span>
<span style=\'color:gray\'>The assumption that what currently exists must necessarily exist is the acid that corrodes all visionary thinking.
-Murray Bookchin</span>
<span style=\'color:red\'>When we ask for the abolition of the State and its organs we are always told that we dream of a society composed of men better than they are in reality. But no; a thousand times, no. All we ask is that men should not be made worse than they are, by such institutions!
-Peter Kropotkin</span>
Personally, I think that there are very few people who can't be "converted" to revolutionary socialism, and most of them are mega-rich and part of the ruling classes.
If someone with reactionary views seems to be interested in leftism, we should nurture that interest and ensure that they don't get entrenched deeper into the Right.
I think that the best people to target are the younger ones, who may just be starting to become political - if we can convince them as teenagers and young adults, more will join the Left.
Can people stop using "skin" or "skinhead" as a synonym for fascist? Anyway, I used to hold homophobic views in the past and I changed....
You seem neat, but...
They divide us by our color, they divide us by our tongue,
They divide us men and women, they divide us old and young,
But they'll tremble at our voices when they hear these verses sung,
For the Union makes us strong!
I was homophobic in the phase that most young boys are, but as soon as I got some education about it I changed my mind. This is what needs to be done on a larger scale for many teenagers: education cures all ills.
being a fascist isnt a pre-requisite for being a homophobe though...
A few years ago, I would say I would be about I visited Stormfront and nearly believed their propaganda about "We don't hate other races, we just want self-determination" but after a few days I realized they were neo-Nazi racist scum.
And when Marx says, 'Hitherto the philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways', what that 'hitherto' means is not a renunciation of theory and that all we need to do is wade in with our fists and there will be no more need for thought. This idea is in fact fascist, and it would be grossly unjust to Marx to impute such views on him.
--Theodor Adorno, 'On Theory and Practice'
I never claimed I was a fascist, just had right-wing tendencies.
You seem neat, but...
They divide us by our color, they divide us by our tongue,
They divide us men and women, they divide us old and young,
But they'll tremble at our voices when they hear these verses sung,
For the Union makes us strong!
Question: I know homophobia is used to describe a cultural predjuice against homosexuals, but is there an actual medical condition similar to agorophobia or any of that? I was just wondering.
War is Peace,
Freedom is Slavery,
Ignorance is Strength[COLOR=red]
Has anyone seen that movie "American History X" where this facist, neo-nazi guy, kills a black man, and gets sent to jail, and realizes the error of his ways when he becomes friends with a black man in jail, then when hes out of jail he finds his lil brother up to the neo-nazi shit and wants to fix everything.
<span style=\'color:red\'>"Freedom in capitalist society always remains about the same as it was in ancient Greek republics: Freedom for slave owners."
-Vladimir Lenin
My Blog</span>
Yeah, it was really good movie. I like how it showed how Derek's father had planted the seeds of Derek's nazism.
American History X
