acab = shit?

[A-S M.]

I'm having some problems with the whole acab crap amonst a lot of activists, it seems to me that we put way too much effort in fighting the police and blaming things on them while we should be fighting the people who are responsible (politicians etc), yea offcourse we don't have to let them kick our ass at protests, but in my eyes they're also victims of our "leaders"

I'd like too see your guys thought on this

[Iron]

I agree way to much effort is put into fight the police and blame on them. i'm all for self defense at a rally. but burning a police car or throwing bricks at officer joe from the downtown P.D. will do nothing but turn public opion away from your cause. the fact of the matter is people don't like to see the police geting beat up it. neither do i even though some may be fasict at a rally or traffic stop they are just doing their job, and to blame all cops for the action of the minioirity sounds like a bad idea to me. in my opion yes the police, soilders, and civil workers are among the victims of politicians that have payed the highest price. they have to follow orders wether they belive in them or not. i doubt a roit cop is very happy about have to break up and rally that he/she might support.

but this is just my 2 cents

[apathy maybe]

ACAB. All Coppers are Bastards.

Cops have chosen a job that means that they will be used against demonstrators, strikers and others by the ruling classes. If they don't like it, they should get out.

There isn't anything wrong with burning a police car, I paid for it (taxes), therefore, I get to smash it up!

Anyway, I can't be fucked giving a longer post, I think you get my point.

[A-S M.]

Originally posted by apathy maybe@July 03, 2007 11:36 am
ACAB. All Coppers are Bastards.

Cops have chosen a job that means that they will be used against demonstrators, strikers and others by the ruling classes. If they don't like it, they should get out.

There isn't anything wrong with burning a police car, I paid for it (taxes), therefore, I get to smash it up!

Anyway, I can't be fucked giving a longer post, I think you get my point.

dude I fully agree, maybe my title wasn't the best but what I try to say is that all the energy we put into fighting cops we could use it to fight the people who are really responsible, not those stupid enough to defend them...

[apathy maybe]

Ah, I understand.

Of course, we have to go through the coppers to get to the bastards though. And if we do go for them, we'll have to contend with the cops at every turn.

That's the thing you see, you don't see too many politicians on the street engaging in street battles.

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by A-S M.@July 01, 2007 03:54 pm
I'm having some problems with the whole acab crap amonst a lot of activists, it seems to me that we put way too much effort in fighting the police and blaming things on them while we should be fighting the people who are responsible (politicians etc), yea offcourse we don't have to let them kick our ass at protests, but in my eyes they're also victims of our "leaders"

I'd like too see your guys thought on this

The police that show no brutality and are the actual people who do what a cop is supposed to do (Protect and Serve) are fellow victims of the Opression given by Politicians and other leaders of this country.

But the Racist cops that exercise way too much power must be stopped, whether physically attacked or put out of their job, we cannot allow this to go on.

I think ACAB and the theories of it are inaccurate, because not all cops are bastards. I never say Fuck The Police. I say Fuck Racists, or Fuck Police Brutality.

Saying that all Police are brutal, racist, ect. is a generalization and stereotype, and generalizations and stereotypes are what we have sworn to destroy.

Unfortunately, the stereotypical Police officer is what we usually see, but there are cops that are not racist bigots like most.

[Comeback Kid]

So im in a small country town. You cant hate the cops here, there your neigbours, the guys down the street, their kids go to school.

You cant hate them for being cops (you can if they are overtly racist/facist ect) they joined up because they wanted to protect and serve. They had the best intentions in mind, and you cant hate some one who just has the best inentions for the community in mind.

Went over to grandparents house today and we were broken into, the police were professional and did their job, lucky not much was stolen.

It is unfortunate that we live in society were violence and crime exists, we are tyig to fight it. As are they, they just are doing it a different way to us, that doesn't make them evil. Just a little misguided, but like all oppressed workers arnt fully class concious and cant be expected to rationalize their actions in a sense of class struggle.

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by Comeback Kid@July 13, 2007 07:49 am
You cant hate them for being cops (you can if they are overtly racist/facist ect)

Exactly. I respect the Police for how they give up almost their lives at times to Protect and Serve.

But Fascist/Racist Police Officers must be stopped without disrupting the flow of the hard-working, just police officers that are oppressed by Capitalism just as we are.

[midnight marauder]

There are very few people who I would call objectively "evil". Most bourgeois politicians, for example, are well meaning people who think what they're doing is just, and good. Police tend to fall in this category.

Unfortunately, many of us don't have the luxury of rewarding the respect that should naturally come from someone being a well meaning member of a police force who is dedicated to protecting and serving the public. This is because the role of a policeman is (among other things) somebody dedicated to protecting private propert, and ensuring the enforcement of the legal system in the status quo. What this means for many people, especially people who are underpriveleged or minorities, is that the police will in effect be proctecting the distribution of inequality, and enforcing laws and policies which disproportionately affect these groups of people. Not by choice necessarily, but by job. This is especially problematic becaues most people don't understand this as the role of the police, because our culture is such that we regard them as heroes and people who DO "protect and serve" the public.

Sometimes they do, sometimes the don't. The key factor in determining tends to come down to who you are. Police respond very differently to you if you're a minority (especially if you're black, latino, or arab), young, male, poor, and in an urban enviornment, than they would if you were someone else. Whereas police protect the upperclasses and upperclass areas, they tend to have the unintended effect of preventing people who are lower class from poorer sections of cities from having a better quality of life. Some of you might be familiar with this quote from Omali Yeshitela, that "the police become necessary in human society only at that junction in human society where there's a fight between those who have, and those who have not." and I think that's a pretty accurate description of why we feel like "fuck the law".

Point being, when the police stop acting like an occupying army in the hood, then we will start respecting them. Until then, we're probably finna act like all cops are bastards.

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by JUICE@July 14, 2007 12:44 am
There are very few people who I would call objectively "evil". Most bourgeois politicians, for example, are well meaning people who think what they're doing is just, and good. Police tend to fall in this category.

Unfortunately, many of us don't have the luxury of rewarding the respect that should naturally come from someone being a well meaning member of a police force who is dedicated to protecting and serving the public. This is because the role of a policeman is (among other things) somebody dedicated to protecting private propert, and ensuring the enforcement of the legal system in the status quo. What this means for many people, especially people who are underpriveleged or minorities, is that the police will in effect be proctecting the distribution of inequality, and enforcing laws and policies which disproportionately affect these groups of people. Not by choice necessarily, but by job. This is especially problematic becaues most people don't understand this as the role of the police, because our culture is such that we regard them as heroes and people who DO "protect and serve" the public.

Sometimes they do, sometimes the don't. The key factor in determining tends to come down to who you are. Police respond very differently to you if you're a minority (especially if you're black, latino, or arab), young, male, poor, and in an urban enviornment, than they would if you were someone else. Whereas police protect the upperclasses and upperclass areas, they tend to have the unintended effect of ensuring that people who are lower class from poorer sections of cities from having a better quality of life. Some of you might be familiar with this quote from Omali Yeshitela, that "the police become necessary in human society only at that junction in human society where there's a fight between those who have, and those who have not." and I think that's a pretty accurate description of why we feel like "fuck the law".

Point being, when the police stop acting like an occupying army in the hood, then we will start respecting them. Until then, we're probably finna act like all cops are bastards.

It's unnecassary to work against the entire police force when not the whole police force is unjust/racist, and the stereotypical "pig".

[midnight marauder]

Thanks for the quick response. I tend to agree, comrade, but I always keep in mind that when it comes down to it, no matter how well meaning or helpful a police officer can be, in many ways their job prevents them from being on the side of the proletariat and the disenfranchized. It's incredibly hard for me to support a police force when my people are being harassed, beaten, and sometimes killed by corrupt law enforcement officers in major urban cities across the United States.

[Faux Real]

I'm sure we all know what the Police "protect and serve", yet as mentioned before many are just in it for the nice pay and benefits. There are the racist fascists who believe they're a godsend and intimidate innocent minorities for the fun of it, as low as their numbers are.

The ones who are class conscious can garner their skills and be useful in a workers revolution is a huge +. We can't go off confronting them when they are not our class enemies, until they are in direct command of the state.

[Never Give In]

Originally posted by JUICE@July 14, 2007 12:53 am
Thanks for the quick response. I tend to agree, comrade, but I always keep in mind that when it comes down to it, no matter how well meaning or helpful a police officer can be, in many ways their job prevents them from being on the side of the proletariat and the disenfranchized. It's incredibly hard for me to support a police force when my people are being harassed, beaten, and sometimes killed by corrupt law enforcement officers in major urban cities across the United States.

It's unfortunate the bad name spread in the proletariat places of the world of the police. I know many police that are in it only to protect lives.

It's also unfortunate that police have so much power and space to corrupt that way. The policing of the world is a tragic situation in my eyes.

On a lighter note, I MADE IT OVER A 100 POSTS! WOOT!!! Kay. Anyway.

[apathy maybe]

Just to bump this thread and to add something more to it, Cops, Dirty Harry, And Junious Poole is an article about just this topic. Written in the early 1970s, the author basically states that the police are disposable barriers to the ruling class.

He is no doubt correct, the police do protect the ruling class, and the ruling class aren't hurt even if police are.

But how do we get to the rulers? I'm pretty sure the author would advocate revolution. Indeed sir. But even then we have to contend with the cops.

[A-S M.]

Originally posted by apathy maybe@July 17, 2007 03:09 pm
Just to bump this thread and to add something more to it, Cops, Dirty Harry, And Junious Poole is an article about just this topic. Written in the early 1970s, the author basically states that the police are disposable barriers to the ruling class.

He is no doubt correct, the police do protect the ruling class, and the ruling class aren't hurt even if police are.

But how do we get to the rulers? I'm pretty sure the author would advocate revolution. Indeed sir. But even then we have to contend with the cops.

you only would face the cops/army/... if you go after them openly, I think the only way to get the ruling class without hurting innocent people would be covert action

[apathy maybe]

Hardly revolutionary :P

Revolution is *mass* action, which cannot be covert by definition. :P

[A-S M.]

Originally posted by apathy maybe@July 18, 2007 07:43 am
Hardly revolutionary :P

Revolution is *mass* action, which cannot be covert by definition. :P

covert action supported by the masses? h34r:

[NorthStarRepublicML]

Cops have chosen a job that means that they will be used against demonstrators, strikers and others by the ruling classes. If they don't like it, they should get out.

the police and most others who have risk oriented jobs, much like persons in the military are often what could be called "economic draftees" .... if you would bother to look at the makeup of the typical military unit or police precinct you will find that most if not all of them come from lower income, working class backgrounds... .

its easy to say something like "if they don't like it, they should get out" but often these jobs are able to provide persons with the income required to raise a family and sustain themselves .... yes, obviously they are being used to enforce state power .... but to some degree everyone that contributes to a capitalist economy is working to enforce state control ....

do you pay taxes? i do and i wish i didn't have to but if i said: "i don't like it, i should get out" and actually did I would most likely face consequences ....

its the same thing with police .... i'm pretty sure that there are police officers that actually enjoy exercising power over others, but a sizable percentage are most likely not thrilled with the prospect of shooting and killing or beating people on a regular basis ....

do you like your job? i sure don't ... i don't know too many people that do ... i assume that police would be included there ....

Went over to grandparents house today and we were broken into, the police were professional and did their job, lucky not much was stolen.

thats a very good point, although they may be the enforcers of state power .... most of the time you can call them for help, and even though they may have never met you, not have a whole lot in common with you, might not even speak the same native language, and they will come out and check out your problem ... it's their job after all ....

[Never Give In]

When there is a murderer in your house, when someone is harming you or your family, when nobody else is left to help, who will you call? The ghostbusters? Hell no.

Though, in theory, after revolution there will be no need for police, as long as Capitalism is still in place they should be recognized as our protectors.

The Racist Police that deliver brutal injustice every day must be stopped, but police, while under Capitalism, are necassary and useful.

[A-S M.]

Originally posted by Never Give In@July 19, 2007 07:38 am
When there is a murderer in your house, when someone is harming you or your family, when nobody else is left to help, who will you call? The ghostbusters? Hell no.

what about the A-Team?