Olivier Besancenot or Arlette Laguiller, critically.
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Ok obviously noone here is going to support Sarkozy. And obviously the first thing that comes to mind is to support for the socialist candidate. But i hear that she's quite the oaf. Who would you support?
"All struggle against fascism must win" George Habash, leader of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine
"The only language the enemy understands is that of violent revolution" George Habash
"The freedom of all is essential to my freedom" Bakunin
Economic Left/Right: -8.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.64
Olivier Besancenot or Arlette Laguiller, critically.
There were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror... --- Mark Twain
Communists support .. none of the bourgeois candidates.
"Getting a job, finding a mate, having a place to live, finding a creative outlet. Life is a war of attrition. You have to stay active on all fronts. It's one thing after another. I've tried to control a chaotic universe. And it's a losing battle. But I can't let go. I've tried, but I can't." - Harvey Pekar
Do you think combined, they'll get more votes than they did in 2002 (I think it was almost 11% of the total votes)?
"Getting a job, finding a mate, having a place to live, finding a creative outlet. Life is a war of attrition. You have to stay active on all fronts. It's one thing after another. I've tried to control a chaotic universe. And it's a losing battle. But I can't let go. I've tried, but I can't." - Harvey Pekar
I honestly couldn't tell you, not knowing what exactly the mood is like over there. My French is terrible so I've been looking through articles for the important bits about it and hoping my translation is correct!
I think if they drop votes though, it would be quite a blow to the left.
There were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror... --- Mark Twain
I support puttin' more riotfunk in that ass.
I dont know who this Gerard Schivardi is - is he from the Lambertist party ?
ANyway, my view is that the only thing to do is vote socialist. Neither Besangenot, Laguiller or Buffet are what I would call candidates of struggle - i.e. none of them represent any significant organisation of social forces on an active basis. All are merely using the election to promote their various parties. Since the politics of each is wrong, why vote for them ? One possible reason would be that the mass of workers have faith in them and a vote for them would put them to the test. This is not the case.
Royal on the other hand represents the party in which workers do have illusions. Consequently one should vote for her.
This is done in recognition that the tactic will not be effective in the absence of militant struggle - which is mostly absent. The puzzle about deciding how to vote is that there is no way to vote which repreents a sound working class perspective. The puzzle is that there is no course of action which makes sense - but that is capitalist democracy for you. It has evolved to allow you vote and not to allow you to represent your own interests.
SO it is no objection to a voting tactic that it is not electorally effective. Let me put it another way. If Buffet, Laguiller and Besangenot are all deeply flawed candidates, how can you say one is better than the other ? You cant - certainly between Laguiller and Besangenot. Voting Royal allows you to a) avoid abstaining and b) avoid choosing one revolutionary sect over another and c) vote along class lines.
Hence its the best option in a bad field of options.
"Dixi et salvavi animam meam" - quoted by Marx
"Things rarely work out well if one aims at 'moderation'..." - Engels
"By and by we heare newes of shipwrack in the same place, then we are too blame if we accept it not for a Rock." Sir Philip Sydney
"The most to be hoped for by groups who claim to belong to the Marxist succession (...) is for them to serve as a hyphen between past and future....nothing can be held sacred – everything is called into question. Only after having been put through such a crucible could socialism conceivably re-emerge as a viable doctrine and plan of action." - Van Heijenoort
No, first of you should not put Buffet and Besancenot , Lagullier in the same league.
Besancenot, although having good ideas, and supporting strikes here and there, is working on a social movement, yet he refuses to take any governemental responsibilities, not even on a local scale.
Buffet however, her program is realistic , and well calculated. The PCF would assume responsabilities.
Royal , is a social democrat let's say, and not a socialist. She says she is inspired by Blair, and I think this is scandalous , seeing what Blair has done to Britain.
Schivardi, to answer a question posed above is a trotskyist, with nationalist points of view. On tv he talks alot about the "french this french this". Not an internationalist.
Also the smallest candidate..
Anyways my top 3 :
1. Buffet
2. Bove
3. Besancenot
1- Schivardi is not a Trotskyst, and the PT has degenerated to the core.
2- The PS and Royal are identical to what the democratic party is in the US although it used to be a workers bourgeois party back in the time.
3- Besancenot is a reformist with revolutionary rethoric, he's tailing the popular front with the CP and the PS.
4-LO and Laguiller, although to the left of the LCR, are totaly trade-unionists. They offer no political perspective to the masses and had a somewhat reactionary attitude toward the immigrants' uprising in 2005. Worse, they might even call to vote for Royal if she reaches the second round.
5-The CP is a reformist-stalinist party which betrayed the proletariat so many times(1936,45,56,68,81,95,etc) that no serious person would think about supporting it.
As a result, workers have no choice to make. It is better to prepare the incoming struggles that will require a vanguard bolchevik party.
Schivardi is constantly flirting with nationalism , and comes in France more across as a farce I have the idea.
TBayrou is center right, and Segolene not much better.
LCR has a potential to be a social movement, and they are relatively active in the streets and the on other areas.
how have the PCF betrayed the proletariat? 1968 I understand but else....
on a local level everywhere the PF was dominating there was social improvement.
And not to forget Marchais was a great leader, despite having his flaws.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with calling to vote Royal on the second roudn, if it is to block the road for the ultra capitalist policies of Sarkozy, who lets not forget in the candidate riding for the mulitnationals and the big bosses (le grand patronat), and whos brother holds a high position in the MEDEF.
she's from the PCF, right?
"Love Other Human Beings like you would Yourself"
-- Ho Chi Minh
"We Don't Care who gets elected, because whoever it is will be Overthrown"
-- Subcomandante Marcos
There is really no basis to this nonsense. The PCF in fact supported the strikes of 1968. In the early 1980s the PCF came into conflict with the bourgeois social democrats due to their treacherous policies. The CGT was in fact the leading force of the 1995 strike.
ye , true, but the pcf in 1968 did initialy not support the student uprisings. Yet I do think the party did an immense amount of good for the people of France.
Yes, their co-option and destruction of a revolutionary situation was clearly a brilliant victory for the working-class.
I'd vote Royal, to keep Sarkozy out.
“It is not true that people stop pursuing dreams because they grow old, they grow old because they stop pursuing dreams.” - Gabriel Garcia Marquez
"What forces can bring the national question to a successful conclusion? Only the working class can do so." - Ta Power
I think that impression was created by her political inexperience when dealing with international issues.
As far as the candidates go, I don't think any of them can really fundamentally change much. However, I am quite worried by the growing amount of support that the ultraconservatives and their candidate Le Pen are garnering.
My favorite candidate is Olivier Besancenot, but realistically speaking, I hope Royal wins the election.
I don't think Le Pen's advancement to the second round in 2002 was something that he or the NF really achieved but more of a consequence of having such a disunited left. Anyways, if he makes it again, there will be riots.
The proletariat should defeat Sarkozy whose victory would result in union busting and 60 hour/week slavery. Sarkozy is the main enemy.
Buffet supported French troops in the Lebanon.
La Situation Au Liban (French)
There were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror... --- Mark Twain
