Thread: India

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    I would like every one of you share your views about India, what ever it may be, especially about the left parties and their wrong strategies. I am from India myself and now I am totally confused about what should be done in India. The CPI(M) and the CPI are the main Left parties in India, but I don’t find anything revolutionary in their ideas and actions.

    I am also looking to join some Left parties or groups and I follow the principles of Marxism, Leninism and Trotskyism. What do you think is the right thing to do? The Trotskyites organizations in India are very weak and the main stream left parties more reformists than revolutionaries. At present I am looking forward to join “Socialist Alternative”, the Indian sect of the CWI. What do you think? And I would also like to hear other suggestions.
    Thank You.
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    Well as an Indian myself I share your confusion.

    Our country is so much complex and contradictory in every matters(both historically and current) that makes really hard to analyse any situation in any method. It is more divided than the whole world and the first task of Communists should be strengthening this unity in diversity against attacks from Sangh Parivar,Casteist and Religious fanatical groups.

    I am also looking to join some Left parties or groups and I follow the principles of Marxism, Leninism and Trotskyism.
    I think there is no difference between these three. IMO it is plain enough to say Marxism as both Lenin and Trotsky considered themselves as one.

    What do you think is the right thing to do? The Trotskyites organizations in India are very weak and the main stream left parties more reformists than revolutionaries.
    This is the thing that had made me to work along with AITUC and SFI. And IMO it is the leadership of CPI and CPI(M) which is reformist not the rank and file. Reagrdles of the strategies we have to reach out to them to make our efforts worthwhile.

    At present I am looking forward to join “Socialist Alternative”, the Indian sect of the CWI. What do you think?
    I had some correspondence with them too.They are more centeredaroung Banglore and Kolkotta.

    And I would also like to hear other suggestions.
    Well this not my sugesstion but made to me by another Comrade who posts in this board.


    I don&#39;t have a simple instant answer&#33; And tactics have to be decided on the spot, case-by-case.

    I think the official CPs have been reformist for a long time, and in a way it&#39;s positive they&#39;re becoming more openly reformist. When people start looking for revolutionary perspectives, they&#39;ll look elsewhere. In the past, revolutionary-minded workers and young people were more easily misled by fake revolutionaries, and by the bureaucratic regimes that supported them.

    I think there are a lot of positive developments in the world; all over Latin America especially workers are fighting back and the capitalists are forced to back up and put on a left or social-democratic mask. Even in India, hasn&#39;t this happened some, with some backlash against the BJP?

    I think it&#39;s necessary to join whatever workers&#39; struggles and mass actions are going on, for a beginning - try to make the connections between the different forms of exploitation and oppression. Point out how each particular struggle, in order to achieve its own goals, has to be linked with others in a larger revolutionary effort. Part of making those connections can be building revolutionary parties; reading, discussing, and circulating revolutionary literature.
    ................

    I hope that helped some. I really can&#39;t answer all these things for you. As you act and gain experience, you&#39;ll come to your own conclusions. Don&#39;t feel like you have to have everything figured out from the start.
    It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
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    you should join the naxalites... Trotskyism is nice but in a country where there is a revolutionary movement actually in the process of revolution, all individuals should be behind it. India is pretty big and the naxalites aren&#39;t active everywhere
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    Thank you very much for your suggestions, comrades.
    <span style=\'color:gray\'>Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence and enjoy it to the full.
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    IMHO the biggest obstacle you have to get over in India is the caste system, it&#39;s deeply ingrained in Indian culture and the Indian psyche. It&#39;s difficult (though not impossible) to formulate a strategy to conteract something so deeply entrenched in the general populous.

    The focus must start with the young, as an example arranged marriges are gradually becomming less and less common as the younger generations realise that marrying for love creates a stronger bond.

    If the younger generations of Indians can be shown that leftist politics are better for them and of bennefit to the whole of Indian society then there is no reason why things cannot change.
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    Too bad so many urban youth in India bought into that India Shining garbage and supported fascist parties like the BJP and ShivSena last election.
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    Hi comrades,

    I&#39;m Indian and i see India as generally a fascist right wing country. People keep saying India is the worlds biggest democracy. What kind of a democracy allows widespead compilance with the caste system which is racist and doesn&#39;t allow high castes to mix with low castes ? Also India has silly laws like not being able to show affection in public. Also, the prolateriat are being heavily exploited by the their bourgeoisie masters by being forced to work for next to nothing while their masters keep all of the profits. I could go on and on.
    The prolateriat workers in India are in their millions, so it&#39;s easy to win their support.You win the prolateriat, you win India. India in my opinion is the best place in the world for a revolution because the oppressed outnumber the oppressors.
    What political system should be installed ? Easy............Maoism. Marxism would totally cripple the booming Indian market economy and reduce living standards to below tolerable. In Maoism, and contary to Marxism, capital is embraced, hence, China&#39;s booming economy.
    I look at what China was before Communism and what it is now and i&#39;m in admiration for Mao. He&#39;s ended oppression of the peasantry, developed the economy and he&#39;s given women the same rights as men.
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    India in my opinion is the best place in the world for a revolution because the oppressed outnumber the oppressors.
    That is true of Every country in the world. The oppressed always outnumber the oppressors. Although I dont disagree that India is a key spot for future revolution.

    Marxism would totally cripple the booming Indian market economy and reduce living standards to below tolerable. In Maoism, and contary to Marxism, capital is embraced, hence, China&#39;s booming economy.
    Maoism has very little to do with China&#39;s current economy, thats the work of Deng Xiaoping and his followers, who was denounced by Mao as being a capitalist revisionist.
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    I&#39;m Indian and i see India as generally a fascist right wing country.
    Yes that is why in 2004 BJP despite of the Kargil,Pokhran and India shines propaganda got its ass kicked.

    the caste system which is racist and doesn&#39;t allow high castes to mix with low castes ?
    Do you really live in India ? Because what you said was true some 30-40 years back but it seems that time has frozen up for you.

    What political system should be installed ? Easy............Maoism. Marxism would totally cripple the booming Indian market economy and reduce living standards to below tolerable. In Maoism, and contary to Marxism, capital is embraced, hence, China&#39;s booming economy.
    I look at what China was before Communism and what it is now and i&#39;m in admiration for Mao. He&#39;s ended oppression of the peasantry, developed the economy and he&#39;s given women the same rights as men.
    In between this load of stupidity you have posted you have shown that what type of India you want. My advice would be learn about some thing better before showing off your stupidity.
    It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
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    Originally posted by Cheung Mo@April 26, 2007 11:57 pm
    Too bad so many urban youth in India bought into that India Shining garbage and supported fascist parties like the BJP and ShivSena last election.
    I think either time has stuck up for you are you have no habit of reading something before vomiting your idiocy.

    And even the victory for BJP in 1999 elections was not because Indian became fascists but because of the failure of Keynesian and Neo Liberal policies of Congress which ruled almost for 50 years.
    It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
    -Trotsky
    Marx & Engels ! Lenin ! Trotsky
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    Originally posted by g.ram+April 27, 2007 05:52 pm--> (g.ram &#064; April 27, 2007 05:52 pm)
    Cheung Mo
    @April 26, 2007 11:57 pm
    Too bad so many urban youth in India bought into that India Shining garbage and supported fascist parties like the BJP and ShivSena last election.
    I think either time has stuck up for you are you have no habit of reading something before vomiting your idiocy.

    And even the victory for BJP in 1999 elections was not because Indian became fascists but because of the failure of Keynesian and Neo Liberal policies of Congress which ruled almost for 50 years. [/b]
    The BJP still did well among urban youth even in 2004...It was rural voters whose poverty and squalour worsened under BJP rule that send them to defeat (not that its realistic to expect significant improvement from policies of the INC and its allies)...But in many crucial ways, Congress is as bad as the BJP and when in power has been willing to exploit tribalism and communalism as a means of furthering the interests of the bourgeoisie
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    Originally posted by RedArmyFaction@April 27, 2007 04:35 pm

    What political system should be installed ? Easy............Maoism. Marxism would totally cripple the booming Indian market economy and reduce living standards to below tolerable. In Maoism, and contary to Marxism, capital is embraced, hence, China&#39;s booming economy.
    I look at what China was before Communism and what it is now and i&#39;m in admiration for Mao. He&#39;s ended oppression of the peasantry, developed the economy and he&#39;s given women the same rights as men.
    That&#39;s the problem with you Maoist "comrades", you have absolutely no comprehension of authentic marxism and embrace the revisionism that exists in China as communism. Because clearly China is totally on its way to communism and has in no way, shape or form been corrupted by capital.


    But, I digress to the original point to this thread. I believe that an authentic Communist Party, i.e. not Stalinist or Maoist, from taking power whilst spouting violent revolution is very unlikely due to the personality cult in India around Gandhi. Hopefully, our Indian comrades realise that Gandhi only succeeded because the British thought of India as a mere distraction as they fought the Nazis in Europe. Pacifism, I believe, is a tool created and propagated by the bourgeoisie to neuter the working class.
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    How many of you guys are aware of the Nandigram issue? Please read the link which I have provided below.

    India: Nandigram – the brutal massacre of peasants at the hands of the ‘Left’ front government

    What political system should be installed ? Easy............Maoism. Marxism would totally cripple the booming Indian market economy and reduce living standards to below tolerable. In Maoism, and contary to Marxism, capital is embraced, hence, China&#39;s booming economy.
    Maoism has nothing to do with Chinas booming economy and also the Maoists in India are against globalization and other neo liberal policies, that doesn’t mean that I am for globalization.
    <span style=\'color:gray\'>Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence and enjoy it to the full.
    <span style=\'color:red\'> -Leon Trotsky.
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    Originally posted by Cheung Mo+April 28, 2007 05:01 am--> (Cheung Mo &#064; April 28, 2007 05:01 am)
    Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 05:52 pm
    Cheung Mo
    @April 26, 2007 11:57 pm
    Too bad so many urban youth in India bought into that India Shining garbage and supported fascist parties like the BJP and ShivSena last election.
    I think either time has stuck up for you are you have no habit of reading something before vomiting your idiocy.

    And even the victory for BJP in 1999 elections was not because Indian became fascists but because of the failure of Keynesian and Neo Liberal policies of Congress which ruled almost for 50 years.
    The BJP still did well among urban youth even in 2004...It was rural voters whose poverty and squalour worsened under BJP rule that send them to defeat (not that its realistic to expect significant improvement from policies of the INC and its allies)...But in many crucial ways, Congress is as bad as the BJP and when in power has been willing to exploit tribalism and communalism as a means of furthering the interests of the bourgeoisie[/b]
    Again generalising. BJP&#39;s base in mainly in Hindi Speaking northen states. It is almost zero in the non Hindi speakin states.

    The BJP still did well among urban youth even in 2004...
    Not general urban youth. Only those who are unemployed and think that Muslims are the reason for their miseries. And thankfully their numbers are not too much.

    .But in many crucial ways, Congress is as bad as the BJP and when in power has been willing to exploit tribalism and communalism as a means of furthering the interests of the bourgeoisie
    I can&#39;t disagree with you in this statement.

    whilst spouting violent revolution is very unlikely due to the personality cult in India around Gandhi.
    Gandhi is respected all over India for what he did. And the personality cult around Gandhi is not as you try to paint.If it had been and if everyone had really followed Gandhi&#39;s ideals then Babri Masjid Demolition,Bombay Blasts,Graham Steins murder and the Godhra and the following carnage would never had happened. The reason these incidents don&#39;t happen too often and didn&#39;t spread all over India has partly to do with Gandhi.

    Hopefully, our Indian comrades realise that Gandhi only succeeded because the British thought of India as a mere distraction as they fought the Nazis in Europe.
    What a great post. Your Knowledge about Freedom struggle of th Millions of Indians speaks in Volumes <_<

    My best advice would be to better study something about it before you show that you are ignorant.

    Pacifism, I believe, is a tool created and propagated by the bourgeoisie to neuter the working class.
    Gandhi was not a pacifist.

    He advocated Non-Violent resistance. Not non-resistance which is the core idea of Pacifism.

    How many of you guys are aware of the Nandigram issue? Please read the link which I have provided below.
    A good example of Chinese Model of Socialism in work . You remember Buddhadeb claimed that China and Deng Xio Ping are his role models.

    Socialism in one country screwed world revolutions.CPI(M)&#39;s socialism in one state is currently screwing the Indian Revolution.
    It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
    -Trotsky
    Marx & Engels ! Lenin ! Trotsky
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    Originally posted by REDdog@April 28, 2007 05:06 am
    How many of you guys are aware of the Nandigram issue? Please read the link which I have provided below.

    India: Nandigram – the brutal massacre of peasants at the hands of the ‘Left’ front government

    What political system should be installed ? Easy............Maoism. Marxism would totally cripple the booming Indian market economy and reduce living standards to below tolerable. In Maoism, and contary to Marxism, capital is embraced, hence, China&#39;s booming economy.
    Maoism has nothing to do with Chinas booming economy and also the Maoists in India are against globalization and other neo liberal policies, that doesn’t mean that I am for globalization.
    Personally, I think the IMT is being far too kind in taking a line that the CPI and CPI(M) are being led by social democrats: Trotsky would have called them fascists.

    What the "communist" government is doing is no different than Prescott Bush&#39;s role in the building of the Auschwitz death camp. (He owned a steel manufacturing company and made a fortune building the raw materials that were used in Auschwitz&#39;s construction...) Working with Salim is the moral equivalent to working with Nazi-era Volkswagen, to use one of many examples of German corporations implicated in Nazi crimes against humanity: The Suharto government&#39;s massacres of communists, ethnic minorities, and religious minorities are exponentially worse than anything the Soviets did in Afghanistan and rival the atrocities committed by the Nazi regime.
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    Originally posted by g.ram+April 28, 2007 02:36 pm--> (g.ram @ April 28, 2007 02:36 pm)
    Originally posted by Cheung [email protected] 28, 2007 05:01 am
    Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 05:52 pm
    Cheung Mo
    @April 26, 2007 11:57 pm
    Too bad so many urban youth in India bought into that India Shining garbage and supported fascist parties like the BJP and ShivSena last election.
    I think either time has stuck up for you are you have no habit of reading something before vomiting your idiocy.

    And even the victory for BJP in 1999 elections was not because Indian became fascists but because of the failure of Keynesian and Neo Liberal policies of Congress which ruled almost for 50 years.
    The BJP still did well among urban youth even in 2004...It was rural voters whose poverty and squalour worsened under BJP rule that send them to defeat (not that its realistic to expect significant improvement from policies of the INC and its allies)...But in many crucial ways, Congress is as bad as the BJP and when in power has been willing to exploit tribalism and communalism as a means of furthering the interests of the bourgeoisie
    Again generalising. BJP&#39;s base in mainly in Hindi Speaking northen states. It is almost zero in the non Hindi speakin states.

    The BJP still did well among urban youth even in 2004...
    Not general urban youth. Only those who are unemployed and think that Muslims are the reason for their miseries. And thankfully their numbers are not too much.

    .But in many crucial ways, Congress is as bad as the BJP and when in power has been willing to exploit tribalism and communalism as a means of furthering the interests of the bourgeoisie
    I can&#39;t disagree with you in this statement.

    whilst spouting violent revolution is very unlikely due to the personality cult in India around Gandhi.
    Gandhi is respected all over India for what he did. And the personality cult around Gandhi is not as you try to paint.If it had been and if everyone had really followed Gandhi&#39;s ideals then Babri Masjid Demolition,Bombay Blasts,Graham Steins murder and the Godhra and the following carnage would never had happened. The reason these incidents don&#39;t happen too often and didn&#39;t spread all over India has partly to do with Gandhi.

    Hopefully, our Indian comrades realise that Gandhi only succeeded because the British thought of India as a mere distraction as they fought the Nazis in Europe.
    What a great post. Your Knowledge about Freedom struggle of th Millions of Indians speaks in Volumes <_<

    My best advice would be to better study something about it before you show that you are ignorant.

    Pacifism, I believe, is a tool created and propagated by the bourgeoisie to neuter the working class.
    Gandhi was not a pacifist.

    He advocated Non-Violent resistance. Not non-resistance which is the core idea of Pacifism.

    How many of you guys are aware of the Nandigram issue? Please read the link which I have provided below.
    A good example of Chinese Model of Socialism in work . You remember Buddhadeb claimed that China and Deng Xio Ping are his role models.

    Socialism in one country screwed world revolutions.CPI(M)&#39;s socialism in one state is currently screwing the Indian Revolution. [/b]
    Well, I do conceed a very limited knowledge of Indian politics, which is most evident, but I got my impression of Gandhi in India only after seeing a few things on the subject. So I apologise for thinking that that was enough to form an opinion.
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    Originally posted by Niemand@April 28, 2007 10:49 pm
    Well, I do conceed a very limited knowledge of Indian politics, which is most evident, but I got my impression of Gandhi in India only after seeing a few things on the subject. So I apologise for thinking that that was enough to form an opinion.
    No problem with that.

    Any how no one can write off the Indian Independence struggle as simple as it is. Many even in India think that British gave India freedom like a lollipop. Yes the majority of the Indians took a nonviolent approach to their struggle and India&#39;s many social problems still remains unresolved but that should not make Communists to piss at the Independence struggle just because it didn&#39;t fit in to their criteria of "Struggle".

    And about Gandhi.He is just a man. A man who is a product of his time and his own thought. I don&#39;t say that he is the man of his mission. He did what he thought was right and took actions to achieve it. India and Indians needed a force to push its society forward in the dawn of the Capitalist age and under the colonial oppression. Gandhi simple became that factor. He fought more against the Social evils that made it easy for British to impose their rule in India. He is the first one to unite the India people. Even though he played a little role in final struggle of Independence without his historical role Indians would never made the British that their days of Empire are over.
    It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
    -Trotsky
    Marx & Engels ! Lenin ! Trotsky
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    Originally posted by Cheung Mo+April 28, 2007 03:24 pm--> (Cheung Mo @ April 28, 2007 03:24 pm)
    REDdog
    @April 28, 2007 05:06 am
    How many of you guys are aware of the Nandigram issue? Please read the link which I have provided below.

    India: Nandigram – the brutal massacre of peasants at the hands of the ‘Left’ front government

    What political system should be installed ? Easy............Maoism. Marxism would totally cripple the booming Indian market economy and reduce living standards to below tolerable. In Maoism, and contary to Marxism, capital is embraced, hence, China&#39;s booming economy.
    Maoism has nothing to do with Chinas booming economy and also the Maoists in India are against globalization and other neo liberal policies, that doesn’t mean that I am for globalization.
    Personally, I think the IMT is being far too kind in taking a line that the CPI and CPI(M) are being led by social democrats: Trotsky would have called them fascists.

    What the "communist" government is doing is no different than Prescott Bush&#39;s role in the building of the Auschwitz death camp. (He owned a steel manufacturing company and made a fortune building the raw materials that were used in Auschwitz&#39;s construction...) Working with Salim is the moral equivalent to working with Nazi-era Volkswagen, to use one of many examples of German corporations implicated in Nazi crimes against humanity: The Suharto government&#39;s massacres of communists, ethnic minorities, and religious minorities are exponentially worse than anything the Soviets did in Afghanistan and rival the atrocities committed by the Nazi regime. [/b]
    I would suggest that you read Fascism: What It Is and How to Fight It. I would hate to be accused of nitpicking; ignoring what you completely wrote while going off the intended subject of this thread, but I think your statement is fundamentally incorrect. In the introduction of this work, George Lavan Weissman sums up what I am about to tell you.

    George Lavan Weissman wrote:
    The Communist movement was still on its ultra-left binge (the so-called Third Period) when the Nazi movement began to snowball. To the Stalinists, every capitalist party was automatically "fascist". Even more catastrophic than this disorienting of the workers was Stalin&#39;s famous dictum that, rather than being opposites, fascism and social democracy were "twins". The socialists were thereupon dubbed "social fascists" and regarded as the main enemy. Of course, there could be no united front with social-fascist organizations, and those who, like Trotsky, urged such united fronts, were also labeled social fascists and treated accordingly.
    In other words, I think you should suggest otherwise, and take the burden of such an accusation off of the back of Trotsky.

    But to get on the topic of India, I think an endorsement of the Naxallites would be disastrous for the workers. In February, the Naxalites blew up a truck carrying striking workers back from a rally, while also killing more than 50 people. They usher from a semi-literate peasantry that is struggling to maintain their social relations amidst an attempt by the bourgeoisie to introduce industrialization to the forested area. They have targeted power stations, steel mills; attacked mines, blown up electricity pylons, and have torched cars. It is clear that their objective is to preserve their class; the peasantry that is facing displacement and forceful eviction through the expansion of capitalist production into their tribal areas. I don&#39;t think we should recognize this as some sort of revolutionary movement, in that it wants to preserve the archaic and destitute past.

    The class composition of India is mostly that of peasants, agricultural laborers, and other petty artisans; with the urban working class composing of only 21% of the entire population. There is clear proof of erosion of workers’ real earnings, which in a decade has fallen drastically to less than half, so we can expect the class divide to increase in a few years if this trend continues. But still, we have seen a weakening of working class organizations, and a decline in class action, such as strikes, walk-outs, and other forms of class struggle. I do not know the situation as well as I should, but I will look this subject up.
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    Originally posted by RedDali+April 29, 2007 12:00 am--> (RedDali &#064; April 29, 2007 12:00 am)
    Originally posted by Cheung [email protected] 28, 2007 03:24 pm
    REDdog
    @April 28, 2007 05:06 am
    How many of you guys are aware of the Nandigram issue? Please read the link which I have provided below.

    India: Nandigram – the brutal massacre of peasants at the hands of the ‘Left’ front government

    What political system should be installed ? Easy............Maoism. Marxism would totally cripple the booming Indian market economy and reduce living standards to below tolerable. In Maoism, and contary to Marxism, capital is embraced, hence, China&#39;s booming economy.
    Maoism has nothing to do with Chinas booming economy and also the Maoists in India are against globalization and other neo liberal policies, that doesn’t mean that I am for globalization.
    Personally, I think the IMT is being far too kind in taking a line that the CPI and CPI(M) are being led by social democrats: Trotsky would have called them fascists.

    What the "communist" government is doing is no different than Prescott Bush&#39;s role in the building of the Auschwitz death camp. (He owned a steel manufacturing company and made a fortune building the raw materials that were used in Auschwitz&#39;s construction...) Working with Salim is the moral equivalent to working with Nazi-era Volkswagen, to use one of many examples of German corporations implicated in Nazi crimes against humanity: The Suharto government&#39;s massacres of communists, ethnic minorities, and religious minorities are exponentially worse than anything the Soviets did in Afghanistan and rival the atrocities committed by the Nazi regime.
    I would suggest that you read Fascism: What It Is and How to Fight It. I would hate to be accused of nitpicking; ignoring what you completely wrote while going off the intended subject of this thread, but I think your statement is fundamentally incorrect. In the introduction of this work, George Lavan Weissman sums up what I am about to tell you.

    George Lavan Weissman wrote:
    The Communist movement was still on its ultra-left binge (the so-called Third Period) when the Nazi movement began to snowball. To the Stalinists, every capitalist party was automatically "fascist". Even more catastrophic than this disorienting of the workers was Stalin&#39;s famous dictum that, rather than being opposites, fascism and social democracy were "twins". The socialists were thereupon dubbed "social fascists" and regarded as the main enemy. Of course, there could be no united front with social-fascist organizations, and those who, like Trotsky, urged such united fronts, were also labeled social fascists and treated accordingly.
    In other words, I think you should suggest otherwise, and take the burden of such an accusation off of the back of Trotsky.

    But to get on the topic of India, I think an endorsement of the Naxallites would be disastrous for the workers. In February, the Naxalites blew up a truck carrying striking workers back from a rally, while also killing more than 50 people. They usher from a semi-literate peasantry that is struggling to maintain their social relations amidst an attempt by the bourgeoisie to introduce industrialization to the forested area. They have targeted power stations, steel mills; attacked mines, blown up electricity pylons, and have torched cars. It is clear that their objective is to preserve their class; the peasantry that is facing displacement and forceful eviction through the expansion of capitalist production into their tribal areas. I don&#39;t think we should recognize this as some sort of revolutionary movement, in that it wants to preserve the archaic and destitute past.

    The class composition of India is mostly that of peasants, agricultural laborers, and other petty artisans; with the urban working class composing of only 21% of the entire population. There is clear proof of erosion of workers’ real earnings, which in a decade has fallen drastically to less than half, so we can expect the class divide to increase in a few years if this trend continues. But still, we have seen a weakening of working class organizations, and a decline in class action, such as strikes, walk-outs, and other forms of class struggle. I do not know the situation as well as I should, but I will look this subject up.[/b]
    First of all I would give a big thumbs up for you response to Cheung Mo.

    But you are wrong like every one in your opinion about India.

    In February, the Naxalites blew up a truck carrying striking workers back from a rally, while also killing more than 50 people.
    Are you talking about this one ?

    Well that is the way usually Naxalites operate. Through terrorising those who don&#39;t agree with their views. That problem is precisely because of their religious commitement to Maoism. Their guerilla war against the Indian states is not a tactic they adopted because it is a material necessity but because Chairman Mao did it in China.

    They have targeted power stations, steel mills; attacked mines, blown up electricity pylons, and have torched cars.
    Obviously they themselves would do it when they gain the power. They see Indian government as an enemy state. So sabotage anything that would damage their "enemies".

    the peasantry that is facing displacement and forceful eviction through the expansion of capitalist production into their tribal areas. I don&#39;t think we should recognize this as some sort of revolutionary movement, in that it wants to preserve the archaic and destitute past.
    Really sorry to tell this but your analysis is totally bullshit. Naxalite support base is not the land owing peasant base which is mostly associated with Maosits but mostly of the most backward sections of the whole society who own nothing except their lives. They are also arguably the most oppressed in the entire world. I mostly criticise Naxalites for their wrong tactics and organisation which is very much a fact but your criticism of their class compostion is absolute ridiculous. Criticising Naxalites for their support base is like criticising people like Toussaint loverture and Emiliano Zapata for fighting against the real oppression.


    The class composition of India is mostly that of peasants, agricultural laborers, and other petty artisans; with the urban working class composing of only 21% of the entire population. There is clear proof of erosion of workers’ real earnings, which in a decade has fallen drastically to less than half, so we can expect the class divide to increase in a few years if this trend continues. But still, we have seen a weakening of working class organizations, and a decline in class action, such as strikes, walk-outs, and other forms of class struggle. I do not know the situation as well as I should, but I will look this subject up.
    This is where every body gets wrong. There is a proverb in Tamil about the Indian farmers that if a Farmer started making ledgure books then nothing would exist for even his own grinder. This shows how agriculture is seen by the illiterate farmers. Indian farmers through out the various historical phases of India never saw their occupation as profession but as a service to the Humanity. That is the reason why India from the Indus Valley civilisation to the current Industrial age supported more people than the entire world of those times. That is why Agri-business never took a boom in India and is still avoided by Capitalist as extracting profit from it would be very hard(especially in India) and is not worth the investment.

    Sucide story 1
    Suicide story 2
    Suicide Story 3

    These links tell the story of farmers committing suicide despite the enormous income from the export of agricultural produce in India. This clearly tells that the Indian farmers are the one who is the most brutally raped by the Capitalist system more than the workers. This incident has been a very recent phenomenon which I think has been a repetition for almost ten years ever since the Narasimha Rao government started with the Neo Liberal "reforms" which was followed by all the governments ever since.

    But despite this farmers still not yet started putting profit before everything. That is the reason why millions of Indian working class poor get to eat meal at least once a day. So taking out Indian farmers and their welfare just because they don&#39;t suit to our view of progress would be a disastrous mistake and would be the most mechanical application of Marxism which Marx himself strongly disagree. Forget about all the benefits of Industrialisation if there are no farmers there can be no workers to enjoy its great benefits.
    It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
    -Trotsky
    Marx & Engels ! Lenin ! Trotsky
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    But to get on the topic of India, I think an endorsement of the Naxallites would be disastrous for the workers. In February, the Naxalites blew up a truck carrying striking workers back from a rally, while also killing more than 50 people
    bull fucking shit. You mean cops? There&#39;s nothing in g.ram&#39;s source about killing striking workers, just setting up a road block. It seems like you just prefer to slander real revolutions because your movement has faied to be the ideology of any of them

    I just don&#39;t get it. Why are trotskyist organizations so damn consistant and unrelenting at trying to slander other communist groups. From the Socialist Alternative link in the OP, to a Spart league paper I picked up a month ago
    "Love Other Human Beings like you would Yourself"

    -- Ho Chi Minh

    "We Don't Care who gets elected, because whoever it is will be Overthrown"

    -- Subcomandante Marcos

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