Idiots supporting the BNP

[Okocim]

Originally posted by welshred@March 10, 2007 06:44 pm
Does anyone have figures of how many members they have and candidates? Reliable ones though.

Currently they have 53 local councillors (out of over 20,000 seats) although they presented about 350 candidates in the local elections last year.

here are their accounts for 2004:
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/file...__N__S__W__.PDF

for 2005:
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/file...__N__S__W__.PDF
page 15 (marked page 13) has membership figures:
total of 6,502 for 2005 (6,356 for 2004)

so that's 146 extra members in a year: growth of 2.29%.

using the same % growth for 2006 we can estimate they had by the end of the year:
6651 members


of course, this is all estimates. Though, if true, it does mean the SWP, for all their faults, is bigger than the bnp. lol.

[Fodman]

They are really pissing me off and I feel like giving both of them a good kicking.

defeating someone through debate is always the best way to do it.

however, if they ever get into power (or try to, even though this would be highly unlikely), that may be the time to consider defending yourself, or leave the area - depressing, I know


i came to this conclusion after returning home (in Britain) after a week in Berlin. There I visited Sachenhausen and it made me feel extremely angry and sad, and I really felt like being violent to anybody who supported the behaviour or views of the Nazis, but then i realised that violence only attracts the wrong type of people - i.e. members of the BNP and various other nationalist associations

Words > Fists

[invocation]

Originally posted by welshred@March 04, 2007 05:35 pm
There are two people in my year at school who defend the BNP claiming that they are not racist. Stuff they come out with is unbelievable, such as "they are putting the british people first" and "they have distanced themselves from the racsim and groups like combat 18". They are really pissing me off and I feel like giving both of them a good kicking.

As opposed to the French ? What year are you in? They may just be foolish naive children.

[Fodman]

when they say 'British' they mean white Anglo-Saxon (the original settlers on the land that is now known as Britain were in fact Druids and Celts - but the child-like minds in the BNP probably didn't know that)

[invocation]

Originally posted by welshred@March 26, 2007 06:42 pm
I am in year 13, so a bit older than naive children. Yes they agree that British people are only brits if they are white, anglo saxons.

Tell them the BNP are a bunch of white supremacists who want to deport all non-whites. Failing that they've claim they want to build actual walls to divide blacks/whites etc. They seriously have said this in the past.

[socialistpunk]

so what do they class scottish people as then ? cause we are infact picts or scots depending on were you live to be hounest. I don't get there idiot beleifs in anglo saxons being british there infact danes and some came from france.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by luxemburg89@March 06, 2007 10:18 pm
Theres quite a few tiny fascist groups in this country, reckon the BNP would try and pull them together?

This has been tried, and the far right appears to be far more fragmented and demobalised even than us.

The BNP is, however, draining other groups membership.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by welshred@April 14, 2007 09:15 am
A lot of people who have become disillusioned with labor have been voting for the BNP in some areas. These are mainly working class areas as well. We need to do somthing to combat this now.

We do.

But, spouting anti-racist rhetoric isn't the way to go. It seems too abstract and surreal. The BNP are claiming to offer a solid solutions to real, material problems, unemployment, housings, Health care, and increasing violence. And we come across as pretentious moral crusaders who don't care about the material implications of our "morality" when al lwe respond with is "fuck racism"

We're not anti-racist for the sake of some superstitious moral code, I know, but rather than tell people they are racist scum for supporting the BNP will lead them to the think that "racism is good" - The far right has dropped it's rhetoric spouting and immature look, for suits, straight talking, and 'facts' and statistics This is a clever move, it makes their views seem, legitimate and well thought out. Although it essentially amounts to "No blacks!" or "It's all a Jewish conspiracy" - Anti-fascist rethoric worked will against this sort of bigotry. But we need to be more professional when dealing with this new manifestation. Or it will be we who look like the delusional nutters.

The ex-labour/conservative voters have been hoodwinked into thinking that the BNP is a material solution, and we need to show how this is infact not so. That the BNP will simply extend the logic of the current system, and exacerbate current problems. Solidifying state power making it very hard to hit back.

We also have the problem that when arguing against the BNP, depending how we approach the situation, we inadvertantly take the side of capitalism. A lot of people hate capitalism, or the ills of capitalism, (though they may not be able to label as such) like counsil housing, long NHS waiting lists, pollution, gang crime etc. And the BNP pretends to challenge all this, whereas we often respond by explaing how immigrants bring in far more money than they cost, far more money for who though?

[Tommy-K]

Since average, hard working, law abiding, uncomplaining whites are by far the most discriminated against group of people in this country.

What?!?!?!

This site should be taken down. Wait, no, this party should be taken down. It sickens me to think that they are allowed to get away with saying things like that, yet if we lefties conduct so much as a peaceful protest against global warming we are slammed in a piss-stained cell for the night.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

LU, what are you suggesting? Do you think the left should become more involved in parliamentary politics?

[Raúl Duke]

I think he's suggesting a change of rhetoric to challenge the rhetoric use by the BNP.

Or to develop a "more professional look" so to fight these "more professional than before" fascists (not using the word accurately, I know)

I suppose LU should elaborate on his position anyway though, with possible suggestions on how to look "professional" towards the masses and against this new manifestation.

[fashbash]

Knocking these guys about a bit might make you feel better, but to cause lasting damage to the right we need to destroy their ideology.

The whole notion of the right being grounded in 'common sense', as so many tories and facists claim, is just silly. There is one main theme running through the ideology of the right; immigration is bad for the 'indigenous' people of the nation into which people are migrating. In the context of the UK this means that foriegn nationals entering the country either legally or illegally, are doing so to the detriment of the British working class.

They can lay claim to the erosion of traditional 'British' values through the influence of other cultures. They can point to evidence of unemployment for the working class, and indeed they are correct to some extent to say the old line; 'they come over here, take our jobs...' because effectively they're right. Foriegn nationals now do a lot of the work that the working class used to do, particularly in areas of arable farming.

And it is from these two, perfectly plausible ideas, that the right can justify it's other claims. It is surely common sense to say that if a nation is influenced by a wider sphere of cultures than the ones they have been restricted to for hundreds of years, that nation is going to shift it's values. Therefore the right are spot on to say that traditional values are being eroded, because they undoubtedly are. The left should not be arguing that they aren't, they should be arguing that this is a positive change.

To change the views of another person is very, very difficult, but it can be done. The right lays the blame for society's problems at the door of Johnny Foriegner, but the left knows they are just clouding the issue, that the real blame is to be held by the Capitalist class. If a leftist has read enough background, has enough Marx and Engels under their belt, they can go on to read more recent leftist work, and be prepared to counteract the argument of the right.

But most of all, the right should be treated with a smile, the same sort of smile one might give to a racist elderly relative who's views are old fashioned and outdated. They're on their way out, when they go their views will go with them. When one side of an argument are laughing at the other, the other has already lost.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by JohnnyDarko@April 14, 2007 11:04 pm
I suppose LU should elaborate on his position anyway though, with possible suggestions on how to look "professional" towards the masses and against this new manifestation.

Take the studded jacket off, and shave the mohawk.

But most of all, the right should be treated with a smile, the same sort of smile one might give to a racist elderly relative who's views are old fashioned and outdated. They're on their way out, when they go their views will go with them. When one side of an argument are laughing at the other, the other has already lost.

No. I don't think "laughing it off" is an appropriate plan of action. To quote hitler;

"The only way the rise of the German nazi party could have been prevented was if its enemies had recognised it for what it was right at the start, and had smashed it in its infancy with utmost force"

[Robo the Hobo]

I suppose LU should elaborate on his position anyway though, with possible suggestions on how to look "professional" towards the masses and against this new manifestation.

The left need to calm down on getting rid of government and become the government. We can start acting 'civilised.' We need to stop just opposing everything, and organise around how we can get the system to work for us. We need to keep people involved even after they are about 30 or so. But most of all, we need to win a large ellection, and have four years of change followed by a hundred years more.

(Personally I am green party, as I am an invironmentalist, and their views just seem to make sence)

[Raúl Duke]

Take the studded jacket off, and shave the mohawk.

hmm, I thought not all anarchists wore the studded jackets and mohawks... (at least I don't use that.)

but other than that what other suggestions of professionalism should be used.

P.S. hmm....did you took my statement as in insult to your idea because of the use of ""? I use "" lot so don't mind that. I actually think your idea was interesting and just wanted you to elaborate deeply into your point.