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What does everyone here think of the Iron Cross symbol? Is it as tainted by ascism as the other symbols of Nazi/Fascist regime like the Fasces and Hakenkreutz (I refuse to call it a swastika, because it wasnt, no Nazi ever said "Swastika", and we taint Eastern traditions by this association of two very different symbols)
Point in case, we often see people wearing the West Coast Choppers shirts, and I doubt Im the only one here who sees that symbol and wonders if the wearer is a skinhead before I read the words of the logo. Is the Iron Cross merely a symbol, as harmless as the 5-pointed star (which also has somewhat removed bad connentations-American Empire anyone?), or is the Iron Cross forever stained by the remnant of its fascist use?
<span style=\'color:red\'>Liberty without Socialism is privilege, injustice; Socialism without Liberty is Slavery and Brutality.
-Mikhail Bakunin</span>
<span style=\'color:gray\'>The assumption that what currently exists must necessarily exist is the acid that corrodes all visionary thinking.
-Murray Bookchin</span>
<span style=\'color:red\'>When we ask for the abolition of the State and its organs we are always told that we dream of a society composed of men better than they are in reality. But no; a thousand times, no. All we ask is that men should not be made worse than they are, by such institutions!
-Peter Kropotkin</span>
I think its safe to say that the image of the "iron cross" has been tarnished, and will remain so for the next few centuries to come. I don't imagine it will forever remain a symbol of a failed facist idealogy, but there is no way in taking back the image of the "iron cross" to what it was originally, at least for the next few 100 years.
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Just Imagine, I, a Premier, a Soviet Representative...just now I was told I could not go to Disneyland. I cannot find words to explain this to my people"
-Nikita Kruschev
The image has definately been tarnished somewhat, but in any case if one doesn't relate it to nazi and pre-nazi Germany, it is related to other racial or some form of (extreme, fundemental) Christianity.
He-Man with Iron cross...
...lol
German nazi ss soldier with iron cross...
German WW I with iron cross...
German imperial navy flag from ww i (my father actually has one of these in his apartment because he used to study navy and battle ships, subs, u-boats, etc. and liked Germanies technologies)
Neo-Maoist rants: http://marcelthemaoist.blogspot.com The Commie Geek: http://mistax1337.blogspot.com
I don't really attribute the Iron Cross to Nazism. I do, however, attribute it to German imperialism, as the symbol has been used before and after the Nazi 3rd Reich, more often than not associated with some form of tyranny or oppression. The German Armed Forces still boast that symbol on the sides of their military vehicles.
Dude man, thats totally WWII.....WWI germans didnt have the bloody eagle on their uniforms.Originally posted by Comrade Marcel@February 10, 2007 04:51 am
German WW I with iron cross...
Not to be a stickler, but yeah...
<span style=\'color:red\'>Liberty without Socialism is privilege, injustice; Socialism without Liberty is Slavery and Brutality.
-Mikhail Bakunin</span>
<span style=\'color:gray\'>The assumption that what currently exists must necessarily exist is the acid that corrodes all visionary thinking.
-Murray Bookchin</span>
<span style=\'color:red\'>When we ask for the abolition of the State and its organs we are always told that we dream of a society composed of men better than they are in reality. But no; a thousand times, no. All we ask is that men should not be made worse than they are, by such institutions!
-Peter Kropotkin</span>
Meh. Many nazis use it as a kind of covert symbol, but other folks use it for its original meaning, without any racist affiliation, so it is hard to make a blanket judgement on it.
'heavens above, how awful it is to live outside the law - one is always expecting what one rightly deserves.'
petronius, the satyricon
Most people at my school just thing it's "a cross" and don't associate it with anything other than West Coast Choppers or Triple H (the WWE wrestler). I found a black colored iron cross pin on the ground last year. It was broken. I asked if it belonged to any of my friends and they said, "No, we don't watch West Coast Choppers." I said I thought it was more of Nazi thing then WCC and one of them said they thought that design of cross was Celtic. So I don't think this cross is associated with anything in particular. I guess what people will associate it with depends on the area you're in.
Formerly known as sultan.
www.ourstreets.net
The iron cross is simply a symbol of national chauvenism. Just like the stars and stripes or the union flag. Non of which I'm particuarly fond of.
Its a show?!?!?! I never knew what the fuck it was, other than a silly excuse for Iron Crosses on Hoodies worn by greasy pseudo-bikers.
<span style=\'color:red\'>Liberty without Socialism is privilege, injustice; Socialism without Liberty is Slavery and Brutality.
-Mikhail Bakunin</span>
<span style=\'color:gray\'>The assumption that what currently exists must necessarily exist is the acid that corrodes all visionary thinking.
-Murray Bookchin</span>
<span style=\'color:red\'>When we ask for the abolition of the State and its organs we are always told that we dream of a society composed of men better than they are in reality. But no; a thousand times, no. All we ask is that men should not be made worse than they are, by such institutions!
-Peter Kropotkin</span>
Yes, it's a show about motorcycles or something. I don't know why that show uses it as its logo. It doesn't bother me that they do, it just raises questions.
Formerly known as sultan.
www.ourstreets.net
Isnt the cross some sort of logo?
It does associate with fascism but i see alot of people who draw and wear it who don't even know what fascism believe so don't start hurling rocks at random people who decide to wear it ..... just yet :P
"Marxist psychology is not a school amidst schools, but the only genuine psychology as a science. A psychology other than this cannot exist. And the other way around: everything that was and is genuinely scientific belongs to Marxist psychology" -Lev Vygotsky
"The Bolsheviks have shown that they are capable of everything that a genuine revolutionary party can contribute within the limits of historical possibilities. They are not supposed to perform miracles. For a model and faultless proletarian revolution in an isolated land, exhausted by world war, strangled by imperialism, betrayed by the international proletariat, would be a miracle."
-Rosa Luxemburg
Germany had Eagles within it's symbolism long before world war II.Originally posted by EwokUtopia+February 10, 2007 08:07 am--> (EwokUtopia @ February 10, 2007 08:07 am)Dude man, thats totally WWII.....WWI germans didnt have the bloody eagle on their uniforms.@February 10, 2007 04:51 am
German WW I with iron cross...
Not to be a stickler, but yeah... [/b]
The German Imperial Navy of WW I used the eagle on their flag:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Imperial_Navy
I don't know if it was on WW I uniforms though. The site the image is hosted on says it is, but it could be wrong. I can't seem to find many images of German military uniforms from the first world war, but for sure they had the iron cross.
Neo-Maoist rants: http://marcelthemaoist.blogspot.com The Commie Geek: http://mistax1337.blogspot.com
I think the show is different and it's called "American Chopper":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Chopper
It's a reaity show based on a family owned shop that makes custom motorcycles.
There was a thread about it on stormfront; they where upset when they found out the family is Jewish (or they suspected it), but before that it was a favourite show for some of them.
Then again, there could be two shows...
edit: ok, the show is American Chopper and it is related to WCC.
Neo-Maoist rants: http://marcelthemaoist.blogspot.com The Commie Geek: http://mistax1337.blogspot.com
American Chopper isn't that bad of a show.
...what, it was late at night and I was bored!
'heavens above, how awful it is to live outside the law - one is always expecting what one rightly deserves.'
petronius, the satyricon
I didn't say you did, though I suspect it isn't a commonly watched show among the residents here.
'heavens above, how awful it is to live outside the law - one is always expecting what one rightly deserves.'
petronius, the satyricon
I don't know about the other users, but I find it boring (no offense). Automaniac was pretty cool, though. But Automaniac didn't involve an iron cross, which means I have now put us off topic. YAY!
Formerly known as sultan.
www.ourstreets.net
I find american chopper boring, I dont know if its just me or does anyone else think that at times it is scripted?
I consider the Iron cross pre-fascism and that because Hitler never really invented his own symbols but always nicked them, I dont consider it Fascist.
Has nothing to do with this tho but its like saying the pentagram is Militarist because the Americans had it on there Fighter planes.
<span style=\'color:Blue\'>The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is ripe. You have to make it fall.-Che Guevara</span>
<span style=\'colorurple\'>"Che Guevara is an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom." - Nelson Mandela</span>
