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Or should I say without communists killing anarchists because the latter have never killed the former during a revolution. It's a pity that these two political ideologies which have so many points of similarity can not see eye to eye and focus on revolution. Instead the communists want to stampede their ideology roughshod over all opposition including the anarchists.
This thread has to be a candidate for the most ill informed ahistorical useless question. Only on revleft would this line of discussion make sense.
Also, imo a sectarian anarchist shouldn't be allowed to use a Bernadine Dohrn icon. She's just too cool for you.
☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Though I agree with most of what you said, your very post was sectarian in that you said how "communists want to stampede their ideology roughshod over all opposition including the anarchists."
You seem neat, but...
They divide us by our color, they divide us by our tongue,
They divide us men and women, they divide us old and young,
But they'll tremble at our voices when they hear these verses sung,
For the Union makes us strong!
buuuuuuurn lolOriginally posted by TragicClown@February 02, 2007 08:11 pm
Also, imo a sectarian anarchist shouldn't be allowed to use a Bernadine Dohrn icon. She's just too cool for you
I may not be a historian but I dont see that theres much conflict between 'anarchists' and 'communists', of course there a lot of variety in both ideologies, (social anarchists, individualists, stalinist, marxist-lenninists, etc., etc.) but for the most part we believe the same general thing and the only 'communists' I see trying to 'stampede their roughshod' is those damn totalitarians!!!
Communism's end result is a kind of anarchy, it's just that where we want the transformation from capitalism to no government to be uninterrupted by a socialist stae environment, non autonomous Marxists think it necessary. If the ideal socialist state let the anarchists run their organisations without let or hindrance then the transition to a classless and stateless society could be quickened, even. Maybe the anarchists need the communists and vice versa.
Council Communists are very, very similar to anarcho-syndicalists, anyways. No conflict there.
It's more than kind of, nearly all members of the left want exactly the same thing.
It's unlikely that that would happen because I can't imagine a "socialist state" allowing organisations that seek/fight for it's destruction.
You seem neat, but...
They divide us by our color, they divide us by our tongue,
They divide us men and women, they divide us old and young,
But they'll tremble at our voices when they hear these verses sung,
For the Union makes us strong!
of course..as long as you dont blow up the soviets
ah,no it cant.The state is a tool for the suppression of one class by another.it will whither away when it has no function.
Capitalism allows Anarchists to organise,why wouldnt we?
"But like Trotskyites working with fascists in the USSR to plant no warning bombs to rip out the lungs of Soviet children from their tiny rib cages you will probably choose to turn a blind eye." - RedSunRising
RIP tech,you will be missed
Marxist Book Resource
As long as they don't get in the way of my freedom, communists or anarchists, then I suppose I won't need to shoot them.
'heavens above, how awful it is to live outside the law - one is always expecting what one rightly deserves.'
petronius, the satyricon
Seeing as how the socialist state would be very vulnerable in it's early days, I find it unlikely that any opposition would be tolerated.
You seem neat, but...
They divide us by our color, they divide us by our tongue,
They divide us men and women, they divide us old and young,
But they'll tremble at our voices when they hear these verses sung,
For the Union makes us strong!
That's a pretty ignorant statement.
Truth is, during a revolution the lineups never been a simple communist vs anarchist one.
Instead, everyone has to decide their attitude towards the revolutionary events - this doesn't always have anything to do with past ideological labels.
Russia 1917, Spain 1936 - there were those who supported the bourgeois government and those who supported workers' power. Both among those who called themselves "anarchist" and those who claimed to be Marxist.
I think he means Anarchists vs. Marxists?
But now we must pick up every piece
Of the life we used to love
Just to keep ourselves
At least enough to carry on
As long as the Anarchists don't attempt to kill anyone except Bourgeouis and don't attempt to overthrow a transitional socialist government, I would'nt shoot them. That's stupid, counterproductive, and a waste of resources that we could be using to come together (in our own ways: Anarchists by individual militias and actions, Marxists/Communists by Official Army actions) to smash the Bourgeouis down once and for all.
yeah, the problem is that some anarchists will try to overthrow the sociazlist state, and some people in that socialist state will try to impose their rule on the free communes.
I hope it won't be so in a future revolution, but I fear for it.
Moved to history.
"How you cling to your purity, young man! How afraid you are to soil your hands! All right, stay pure! What good will it do? Why did you join us? Purity is an idea for a yogi or a monk. You intellectuals and Bourgeois anarchists use it as a pretext for doing nothing. To do nothing, to remain motionless, arms at your sides, wearing kids gloves. Well, I have dirty hands. Right up to the elbows. I've plunged them in the filth and blood. But what do you hope? Do you think you'll govern innocently?"-Jean-Paul Sartre
I am a Marxist. I am autonomous. And I believe a transitional State to be necessary.
You would have to convince anarchists of that.
Luís Henrique
The world is not as it is, but as it is constructed.
Falsely attributed to Lenin
Do you expect the anarchist movement to pick up steam in a socialist society?cause i expect it to almost die out.
If the proletariat is really the ruling class,then there will be no need to ban anarchists as they will have no sound argument.Also i dont think you can stop anarchists from organising as they organise without hierarchy.what are you going to ban,public meetings?
"But like Trotskyites working with fascists in the USSR to plant no warning bombs to rip out the lungs of Soviet children from their tiny rib cages you will probably choose to turn a blind eye." - RedSunRising
RIP tech,you will be missed
Marxist Book Resource
Most anarchists are communists. Communists are not communists. Alot of communists are anarchists. Some Marxists are communists and some are Communists. Most Marxists are Trotskyists. Some Trotskyists are communists, but none of them are Communists. Alot of communists are neither anarchists, Marxists nor Communists.
What exactly do you mean?
::: Formerly DJ-TC ::: IWA-AIT :::
Провери обим злонамере непријатеља
и његову снагу о кремени брид своје. — Oskar Davičo
What the hell?
You seem neat, but...
They divide us by our color, they divide us by our tongue,
They divide us men and women, they divide us old and young,
But they'll tremble at our voices when they hear these verses sung,
For the Union makes us strong!
You know what s/he means <_<
btw all of them are socialists
"But like Trotskyites working with fascists in the USSR to plant no warning bombs to rip out the lungs of Soviet children from their tiny rib cages you will probably choose to turn a blind eye." - RedSunRising
RIP tech,you will be missed
Marxist Book Resource
Yes they will, and in fact they already have done so in the past.
In revolution, ideologies are thrown out the window and what one does in practice becomes most important. In the spanish civil war you had "anarchists" as ministers in the central government which was crushing the revolution, whereas leninists were fighting alongside other anarchists to defend that very same revolution.
so as to the question
would i, as an anarchist-ish person, shoot leninists?
Depends, if they try fuck up the revolution, yes
and would i shoot anarchists?
Depends, if they try fuck up the revolution, yes
ο λαός θα πεί την τελευταία λέξη - αυτές οι νύχτες είναι του αλέξη!
Freedom without equality is privilege - Equality without freedom is a barracks
'Engels, my brother from another class,
we haz got to get fucked up on the grog, and then revolt...if the lessons of the Paris Commune has taught as such, the working class cannot lay hold of the ready made bourgeoisie alcohol, they must smash it, and get pissed on cheap methylated spirits.
holler,
marxy.'
- BCBM=AndreasBaader
