Trotsky - A short essay on his influence

[MikeyBoy]

(Thanks to my friend, Randy, for helping me with the essay!)

Mao Tse-Tung wrote that we should analyze our comrades dialectically, not metaphysically. How can we forsake an individual for disagreeing with only a few issues, no matter how important they may seem? What this means is that we should evaluate their shortcomings AND their achievements. We should not coerce everyone into the same beliefs, because there are no absolutes. Trotsky was a man with bright abilities as a revolutionary. He was a writer with a beautiful poetic style of wording, and a ruthless general who led the Red Army. I will not, however, look away from his faults.
Trotsky’s call for mobilization of large worker armies, with organization and strict regulation of a military, was nothing short of dictatorial. I suppose it is understandable that he might have thought this to be efficient because of his successes with the military. This was actually stolen and put into practice by Stalin later, where convicts became members of the vast GULAG work camp system. And history has proven that these massive worker armies were inefficient and ineffective. Any historian will tell you that death rates were high, and the work was mostly pointless. Was this the result of Stalin’s madness and would it have been different under Comrade Trotsky?
Trotsky’s major theoretical work, permanent revolution, undermines Marxist thought at its very core. By combining the conditions of different social stages we can skip from feudalism to Communism…Capitalism is not only a social stage it is a key condition in the transition to Communism! This is why the disaster of the USSR became capitalist instead of communist. Trotsky later realized this, and attributed it to the Stalinist betrayal, when in fact Capitalism was the only way forward. The Bolshevik coup and growth of the Stalinist regime accelerated feudalism into the Capitalist stages. Once again we see how one-sidedness of history leads to misunderstandings. The fall into capitalism was neither solely the fault of any one person, but rather the result of a naturally occurring progression. The USSR under Bolshevik rule became socialist only in the sense that capitalism leads to communism. It could not have skipped the capitalist stage of development. Had Trotsky gained command of the Russia, he would not have been able to do any better than Stalin.
But the important thing is that Trotsky saw the growth of Capitalism as inevitable, and shared his thoughts. It took longer than he thought for the USSR to become fully capitalist again, but not too long. Before the end of the century Russia had become not only capitalist in economics, but developed Capitalist politics as well. Once the Soviet Regime collapsed, there was no longer any pretense that Eastern Europe was at all Marxist. History proved Trotsky correct.
As the leading Bolshevik, Lenin’s legitimate concern for the growth of Stalin’s power should have been noticed. Trotsky should have followed Lenin instead of Stalin. After his displacement from the USSR, Trotsky continued to be a loyal Marxist and opposed the traitorous Stalinist regime and its deformed worker’s state. In this stage of his life he began to understand in full the consequences of the revolution. It was too late for Trotsky, but his writings will educate both posterity and ourselves.

[elijahcraig]

I kind of agree. I also agree with Tony Cliff on Trotsky. Cliff thought that Trotsky was a great man and had mostly great ideas, but some of his were bad ideas, and some had been hijacked by the utopianists.

I think Trotsky could have done a better job in the USSR, maybe avoid the mass murders and purges. I think of him as a hero with some faults, but a hero nonetheless.

[ernestolynch]

Bronstein would have handed the Soviet Union over to the Fascists all tied up in ribbons with a little gift tag saying

"To Adolf, I told you I wouldn't let you down, hugs and kisses, Lev. XXX"

Then his lucrative anticommunist writing career would start based from his swanky Manhattan condo - a bit like Alice Rosenbaum did. Of course without the USSR as a demon for the capitalist west his books wouldn't sell very much, and their would be a lot less silly liberals trying to sell papers for their cults.

[MikeyBoy]

Bronstein would have handed the Soviet Union over to the Fascists all tied up in ribbons with a little gift tag saying

"To Adolf, I told you I wouldn't let you down, hugs and kisses, Lev. XXX"

Then his lucrative anticommunist writing career would start based from his swanky Manhattan condo - a bit like Alice Rosenbaum did. Of course without the USSR as a demon for the capitalist west his books wouldn't sell very much, and their would be a lot less silly liberals trying to sell papers for their cults.

LOL..."hugs and kisses, Lev". Despite this being so funny I'd like to hear your evidence for this...Because that post was pretty much slander unless you can support it somehow.

I kind of agree. I also agree with Tony Cliff on Trotsky. Cliff thought that Trotsky was a great man and had mostly great ideas, but some of his were bad ideas, and some had been hijacked by the utopianists.

I think Trotsky could have done a better job in the USSR, maybe avoid the mass murders and purges. I think of him as a hero with some faults, but a hero nonetheless.

Trotsky made some mistakes during the revolution that he ended up having to pay for. Although he was a genius he was also an egomaniac. I think it was better that Trotsky ended up in exile. We'd all think much worse of him had he stayed in Russia and capitulated under Stalin and the counter-revolution. His exile allowed him to understand what happened. Atleast, that is my thought.

[ernestolynch]

According to Bukharin’s confession in his public trial in 1938, an agreement was reached between the Trotskyite opposition and Nazi Germany, in which large territories, including the Ukraine, would be ceded to Nazi Germany following the counter-revolutionary coup in the Soviet Union. This was the price demanded by Nazi Germany for its promise of support for the counter-revolutionaries. Bukharin had been informed about this agreement by Radek, who had received an order from Trotsky about the matter. All these conspirators who had been chosen for high positions to lead, administer and defend socialist society were in reality working to destroy socialism.

So you see, the US-trained snake was stealthily planning with the Nazis to destroy the USSR.

[MikeyBoy]

Did you ever think that the confession could have been coerced out of him?

[YKTMX]

Quote: from ernestolynch on 7:24 pm on July 26, 2003
Bronstein would have handed the Soviet Union over to the Fascists all tied up in ribbons with a little gift tag saying

"To Adolf, I told you I wouldn't let you down, hugs and kisses, Lev. XXX"

Then his lucrative anticommunist writing career would start based from his swanky Manhattan condo - a bit like Alice Rosenbaum did. Of course without the USSR as a demon for the capitalist west his books wouldn't sell very much, and their would be a lot less silly liberals trying to sell papers for their cults.

What is this obscure belief that Stalinists have, thta uncle Joe defeated (his old buddy) Hitler almost single handedly. He was too stupid to see that Germany would attack in the first place, and I think the victory was more to do with the bravery of the Russian people than Old Joe twirling his tash in the Kremlin.

Whether Trotsky would have done a better job as head of the USSR is purely hypothetical. But I suppose, seen as we are Marxists, as Trotsky was, then we should support him against Stalin's Imperialist, Chauvinist tyranny. Then again, you'd be suprised.

[Morpheus]

I don't see why you can't go from Feudalism to socialism, especially if the rest of the world went from capitalist to socialist at the same time (which was a requirement for Permenant Revolution to work).

[elijahcraig]

I think the "We beat the nazis" argument for Stalin is weak...a true communist would be in the field bleeding with the people, not sitting around like a US president.

[Cassius Clay]

The Trial of Bakhurin was real. He did not 'confess because he was tortured' as some say. According to the American Ambassador who was present at the trial it was perfectly fair (from his book John Davis 'Mission to Moscow 1940'). Bakhurin himself admitted to numerous sources (that were sympathectic to him) that he planned 'the physical removal of Stalin'. Also there is the testimony of the British lawyer/Parliamentarian William Pitt who was there and sais the trials were fiar and real.

[elijahcraig]

So now you're putting faith into American accounts...I thought it was all "western propaganda"...that means tossing it all away.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Every time I read the posts of you kiddie pseudo communists and anarchists such as Mr. X here, I wan't to strangle every member of Khruschev's family do death for allowing Nikita to bastardise socialism in such a way that fools like this are actually able to try to pass off their absurd lies agains comrade Stalin and the Soviet Union as fact.

YouKnowTheyMurderedX is an uneducated ignorant oaf with no grasp of actual historical fact. Keep on believing what you weant kid. We don't need you brand of bullshit.

Morpheus;

For evidence that a nation cannot skip from feudalism to socialism please review the history of Cambodia under Pol Pot.

Mikeyboy;

There is so much evidence that none of these traitors of the people had their confessions "coerced" out of them it's utterly fantastic that you are unaware of it.


Elijah;

Oh yes indeed. Put your nation's leaders on the front line. That makes all the sense in the world.

Fact;

Trotsky collaborated with the Nazis and the CIA.

Fact;

Trotsky's vision of "permanent revolution" is not only flawed to it's very foundation but also served as a catalyst for counter revolutionaries to form individual Trotskyist cells agains the people.

Fact;

Trotsky along with several other members of the communist parrty collaborated together to betray the Soviet people and murder comrade Stalin.

There are many more facts to present against Trotsky proving his betrayal to the people however I will leave you with this. Being a Menshevic Trotsky never fully supported Lenin ot the Soviet state coming on board the Bolshevic party in a "last ditch effort" for fame in 1917. This megalomaniacal fiend could never really understand why it was comrade Lenin leading the vanguard and people into revolution and not the "great and brilliant" Lev Bronstein. After losing very badly in an open election agains comrade Stalin, I suggest this was simply too much for his fragile ego to take and simply sent him into madness. He then made it his sole mission to bring about the downfall of comrade Stalin even at the expense of the people of the Soviet Union. Putting your own goals and desires in priority over the people is an unforgivable crime. Trotsky should have been executed in public on Soviet soil. It was comrade Stalin's forgivable nature that saved this mad man from the death he so rightly deserved.

[Saint-Just]

Quote: from elijahcraig on 8:13 am on July 27, 2003
I think the "We beat the nazis" argument for Stalin is weak...a true communist would be in the field bleeding with the people, not sitting around like a US president.

Yeah, even better, we should encourage all leaders to get themselves shot. Stalin was so important that suggesting he risk getting killed for almost no gain is preposterous.

[MikeyBoy]

So now you're putting faith into American accounts...I thought it was all "western propaganda"...that means tossing it all away.

ROFL... That was a good one, elijahcraig!


About Bukharin, I don't think either of us has enough physical evidence to prove that he was or was not coerced, so I am willing to not argue over it, if that is ok with you Cassius Clay(and anyone else who disagrees)

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by COMRADE RAF@Jul 28 2003, 07:13 AM
Morpheus;

For evidence that a nation cannot skip from feudalism to socialism please review the history of Cambodia under Pol Pot.

That doesn't prove anything. Pol Pot was an authoritarian statist, had he taken power in a more advanced country similar results would likely have happened.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Good try Morpheus. All I have to say to this piece of brilliant wisdom is;


Bullshit.