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(From the Wikipedia article)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International...e_%28Vietnam%29
Bolds added. It seems to me that this is always what nationalists do. Thoughts about this group or the event?
"Communism, as fully developed naturalism, equals humanism, and as fully developed humanism equals naturalism; it is the genuine resolution of the conflict between man and nature and between man and man – the true resolution of the strife between existence and essence, between objectification and self-confirmation, between freedom and necessity, between the individual and the species. Communism is the riddle of history solved, and it knows itself to be this solution." - Karl Marx
Pale Blue Jadal
http://www.revolutionary-history.co.uk/bac...2/MosTrial.html
An excellent article on the way the 'communists' lead by Ho Chi Minh allied with imperialist forces to smash workers power and trotskiysm, the dominant tendancy inside the Vietnamese labour movement at the time.
In what relations do the Communists stand to the proletarians as a whole? The Communists do not form a separate party opposed to other working class parties. They have no interests separate and apart from those of the proletariat as a whole. They do not set up any sectarian principles of their own, by which to shape and mould the proletarian movement.
-Karl Marx
It is only by strengthening ourselves ideologically, inculcating in ourselves the values and ideals of the struggle and building up the ranks of the revolutionary party that we will make it.
- Ta Power
Many mistakes had been done in the past. No body is perfect to do only good things and make perfect right choices. The purpose of history is to learn from it not attempting to repeat it. Or accuse somebody for some past events that cannot be rectified. These types of post will ultimately do more damage to the united cause that is overthrowing the bourgeoisie.These types of post will surely increase the infighting among us..
But obviously Mao,Stalin and Ho Chi Minh worshippers will greatly disagree with you. Their one line comments might be "Trots are sectarians","Trots are enemies of the people","Trots are CIA agents","Trots worked with Nazis" etc., <_<
It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
-Trotsky
Marx & Engels ! Lenin ! Trotsky
There CAN NEVER be a united cause with stalinists because they have a "united cause" with the bourgeoisie(popular fronts) and even one with Hitler!!!
"Nationalists" doesn't usefully describe why the Vietnamese Stalinists acted like this. In fact, they also crushed some Vietnamese bourgeois nationalists who didn't go along with the deal with France.
(Actually, should be: the deal with Britain. Immediately after WWII, Vietnam was granted to Britain, and it was British troops who landed in Saigon.)
The reason for that deal: Soviet foreign policy, like everything the official "Communist Parties" did. The Yalta agreement, dividing the world coming out of WWII. CPs in Europe and elsewhere did a similar thing around this time, helping restabilize capitalist rule.
The Vietnamese CP did another similar deal with the Geneva Accords ending the war with France - under Soviet pressure giving up South Vietnam which they mostly controlled. But eventually they got enough state basis of their own to stop taking orders from Moscow - like Mao and Tito.
A strange assertion: it's not the repeated slaughter of Bolsheviks by Mensheviks that "damages the united cause" - it's posting about it.
Chinese Trotskyists were persecuted to a certain degree as well though they were few in numbers. Chen Duxiu was probably the main example of this though his main humiliation occured when he was kicked out of the party and discredited.
A bit more from revolutionary history on the subject
La Lutte and the Vietnamese Trotskyists
Ngo Van Xuyet On Vietnam
Ta Thu Thau: Vietnamese Trotskyist Leader
I looked for some of the sources on China, but couldn't find them right now. But I know they are somewere just have to be a bit more througough
In Defence Of Marxism
Hands Off Venezuela
An idiot can ask so many questions it will take years to reply. So if I don't reply to your posts it's probably why
Well one among them is Peng Shu Tse
His 2 interviews about the cultural revolution gives us much details about the behind screen information in a Trotskyist perspective but he has less favorite view of the Cuban revolution and the Cuban government
It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
-Trotsky
Marx & Engels ! Lenin ! Trotsky
Thanks.
But what I was thinking of were some of the first hand accounts from the 30'ies. I know one of the founders of the communist party in China ended up supporting the left opposition.
In Defence Of Marxism
Hands Off Venezuela
An idiot can ask so many questions it will take years to reply. So if I don't reply to your posts it's probably why
We all know what "nationalists" actually describe. Hint: it is not good of the 'nation', it is the good of the ruling or potential ruling faction of the bourgeoisie.
"Communism, as fully developed naturalism, equals humanism, and as fully developed humanism equals naturalism; it is the genuine resolution of the conflict between man and nature and between man and man – the true resolution of the strife between existence and essence, between objectification and self-confirmation, between freedom and necessity, between the individual and the species. Communism is the riddle of history solved, and it knows itself to be this solution." - Karl Marx
Pale Blue Jadal
That's a serious understatement. After '49, Chinese Trotskyists disappeared into Mao's jails and were never seen again.
It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
-Trotsky
Marx & Engels ! Lenin ! Trotsky
Ahh thanks, they seem quite interesting
In Defence Of Marxism
Hands Off Venezuela
An idiot can ask so many questions it will take years to reply. So if I don't reply to your posts it's probably why
These give some Info about trotskyism in Early India during the final years of Independence struggle and P[ost Independence India
http://www.anti-caste.org/marxists/t...ist_press.html
This is their stance on Partiotion of India(More or less similar to Gandhi's stance)
Thesw two articles are actually obituaries to two Indian trotskyists which analyses the failure of Trotskyism in India as a movement
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/ja...obit-j27.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/ma...dula-m31.shtml
It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
-Trotsky
Marx & Engels ! Lenin ! Trotsky
There were few Trotskyists after 1949 and not all of them were jailed. For example, Chen Duxiu pretty much lived a life of obscurity after the 30's.
Yeah, a few went into exile. Especially in Hong Kong, 'til the Brits ran 'em out. But other than that, in fact, the Communist Leage of China, which had survived less ruthless repression under Chiang, was rapidly and thoroughly wiped out by the PRC. Draw what conclusions you like - that's simply the fact.
More exactly, he split from the Trotskyist organization in '41 and died in '42. So I'm not sure why you're trying to use him as an example of the PRC's supposed toleration of Trotskyists.
I don't think that the CCP after the 30's was ever tolerant of Trotskyists rather my point was that pro and anti Comintern CPC members (Chen's supporters and opponents) pretty much fell into obscurity and disfavor after Jiang's White Purges. The few Trotskyists after who later criticized Mao or the party were more or less victims of the general anti-intelligentsia criticism trend that emerged in the 50's and hit a height in the 60's.
