Results 1 to 20 of 28
I've always wondered how we become left or right wing. What specific thing is it that makes us follow certain political ideas. For me, it was the massive unnecessary inequality in the world that made me sit up and take notice.
Any thoughts on this?
You socialization is largly determined by you family (or similar group) and your basic socioeconomic condtions during your early childhood. As children get older schools play an important role in creating views on the state, capitalism, etc..
These early developments structure your later development politicly. For the majority of people they are similar to thier parents, but this is by no means abolute.
I have lived in the monster and I know its entrails; my sling is David's. -Jose Marti
...revolutionaries are anti-civilisation because we are opposed to what class society defines as 'civilized' and desireable; because class society and 'civilization' are two-sides of the same coin. Hierarchal organisation, parliaments, commerce, property rights, the police, law and order, fences, borders, religious institutions, these are the things that define 'civilization.' These are the institutions upon which 'civilized society' and class society are based; and all of these will be destroyed when capitalism, the state --- when bourgeois society is pulled down and trampled on by the exploited and oppressed in the struggle for liberation. - bleeding gums malatesta
I was raised in a capitalist, RICH, christian family.
Still I am a communist. I belive the school, and other social relations made me who I am. Also, as the starter of the thread, I opened my eyes to neo-colonialism (imperialism) and the differences and poverty in the world.
<span style=\'color:green\'>
Luxemburg89 - The prize is Jazzratt's small intestine. A most coveted prize. To win this amazing prize you must describe a day in your life without using the letter 'p'. Good luck.</span>
<span style=\'color:red\'>LuXe - Porn.</span>
<span style=\'color:green\'>Luxemburg89 - Completely stuck to the rules I stated, impressive vocabulary, poetic yet brutal and contains that element of doubt that we all have in ourselves sometimes. I find LuXe's story representative of childhood fear, teenage angst and ending with adult apathy. Beautifully written and brilliantly thought out. We should all be proud to be in LuXe's presence. Thank you.</span>
Yes all of us here are most likely exceptions, the majority of people raised in your position would be capitalist and christian.
I have lived in the monster and I know its entrails; my sling is David's. -Jose Marti
...revolutionaries are anti-civilisation because we are opposed to what class society defines as 'civilized' and desireable; because class society and 'civilization' are two-sides of the same coin. Hierarchal organisation, parliaments, commerce, property rights, the police, law and order, fences, borders, religious institutions, these are the things that define 'civilization.' These are the institutions upon which 'civilized society' and class society are based; and all of these will be destroyed when capitalism, the state --- when bourgeois society is pulled down and trampled on by the exploited and oppressed in the struggle for liberation. - bleeding gums malatesta
My family have never really been religious, and we're a typical working-class family. I started to read a lot about the revolutionary left and so on, and I began to take more notice of what was going on in the world.
From young, being from a working class family I could never understand why other people could afford such nicer things than my family ever could. Then a few years back my grandparents opened my eyes to che guevara and suddenly things started making more and more sense to me.
I would rather die on my feet than continue to live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
Hasta la victoria siempre! - Ernesto 'Che' Guevara
So how do we account for variation within families? I'm a revolutionary socialist whereas my brother is a Tory and my sister is vaguely new labour.
At the outbreak of the Iraq war I knew the Government were selling us a pack of lies about WMD, whereas my brother was convinced that Saddam was about to nuke us.
We've had the same upbringing and went to the same school, so what gives?
I like to think it's a matter of intelligence.
I mean, has anyone ever met an intelligent right winger (who wasn't also a sociopath)?
"Events have their own logic, even when human beings do not." - Rosa Luxemburg
"There are decades when nothing happens; and there are weeks when decades happen." - Lenin
It'd be interesting to know what your parents politicial persuasion is and how both you and your brother relate to your parents. People can define themselves politically in comparison or contrast to their parents. Also, society outside of the home may play an important part.Originally posted by Citizen Zero+Oct 18 2006, 10:16 PM--> (Citizen Zero @ Oct 18 2006, 10:16 PM)So how do we account for variation within families? I'm a revolutionary socialist whereas my brother is a Tory and my sister is vaguely new labour.
At the outbreak of the Iraq war I knew the Government were selling us a pack of lies about WMD, whereas my brother was convinced that Saddam was about to nuke us
We've had the same upbringing and went to the same school, so what gives?
I like to think it's a matter of intelligence.
I mean, has anyone ever met an intelligent right winger (who wasn't also a sociopath)? [/b]
<span style=\'color:red\'>"Men make their own history, but they do not make it just as they please; they do not make it under circumstances chosen by themselves, but under circumstances directly encountered, given and transmitted from the past."
-Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon (1852)</span>
<span style=\'color:blue\'>"When people speak of ideas that revolutionize society, they do but express the fact that within the old society, the elements of a new one have been created."
-Karl Marx, The Communist Manifesto</span>
Industrial Workers of the World | Radio Rebelde!
My parents were split. My Dad is a semi-skilled worker and has tended to vote Labour. My Mum (from an almost identical proletarian background to my dad) became an aspirational member of the petite bourgeosie and has wavered - voting for both Thatcher and Blair. Both my mum and dad voted Tory throughout the 80s. My mum with a lot of enthusiasm, even joining the local Conservative Association.Originally posted by BreadBros+Oct 19 2006, 12:04 AM--> (BreadBros @ Oct 19 2006, 12:04 AM)It'd be interesting to know what your parents politicial persuasion is and how both you and your brother relate to your parents. People can define themselves politically in comparison or contrast to their parents. Also, society outside of the home may play an important part. [/b]So how do we account for variation within families? I'm a revolutionary socialist whereas my brother is a Tory and my sister is vaguely new labour.
At the outbreak of the Iraq war I knew the Government were selling us a pack of lies about WMD, whereas my brother was convinced that Saddam was about to nuke us
We've had the same upbringing and went to the same school, so what gives?
I like to think it's a matter of intelligence.
I mean, has anyone ever met an intelligent right winger (who wasn't also a sociopath)?
My brother is six years my junior, so our peer groups have been different and so have our parents fortunes during certain formative stages in our growing up. So it's not like we're twins or anything and there are obvious outside factors to take into account.
Nevertheless, I think both my bro and myself have different automatic emotional responses to events. For instance, if my brother saw TV news footage of a riot, he would instantly side with the police and be anxious about the threat to order. Whereas I would automatically be on the side of the demonstrators and feel exhilerated that they were taking on the old bill.
Also, whereas I'm a cynical fuckturd, my brother really, really wants to believe the voice of authority.
Are these differences between us at root psychological?
"Events have their own logic, even when human beings do not." - Rosa Luxemburg
"There are decades when nothing happens; and there are weeks when decades happen." - Lenin
I think its what your exposed to growing up that decides. for 14 years i used to wish everyday to live in the U.S and do the "american thing" gloat!! but one day at the doctors office i read this article on che and i did research read the manifesto and i felt for the first thime my eyes were open. exposure is the key thing that decides our political stance thats what i belive.
"Mankind is divided into rich and poor, into property owners and exploited; and to abstract oneself from this fundamental division; and from the antagonism between poor and rich means abstracting oneself from fundamental facts." - Joseph Stalin
You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.- Trotsky
Soldiers and police dem wising up, realizing they're no more right than us
Realizing there's no use fighting us
Realizing their opening their eyes to see the same demoralizing life as us- Jr gong
<span style=\'color:red\'>FREE THE CUBAN 5!!!!!!!!</span>
My family was working-class, christian, increased last 10 yrs, divorce,
I dont know how i came out the way i did.
I was always left-wing,but what turned me into a socialist was a deeper understanding of capitalism.
It seems unbelievable that even today, after everything that has happened & is happening in Russia, there are people who still imagine that the difference between socialists(ie Leninists.) & anarchists is only that of wanting revolution gradually or quickly.
ERRICO MALATESTA
The vast majority of it boils down to Memetic engineering.
"Cocaine's a hell of a drug."-Rick James.
"Those who do not move, do not notice their chains."-Rosa Luxemburg.
Class Against Class|MR|MRZine|H+
I've been growing up in a rich, upper-middle class, capitalist, christian household my entire life. i never really agreed with it, i remember asking my father (when he told me about all these marketing schemes he'd worked up) "what about the people who buy in?" and he would just say something along the lines of "what about them?" and this, along with many other points, made me lose respect for him and his political views. and then last july i found a copy of the manifesto online, read it, and realized that there is a better way.
They cannot be free until they wake up.
But they cannot wake up until they are free.
Noticed that the US Government was lying to me, then was interested in Communism and communism, and other alternatives to what I saw as America. But at this time my father had a manager job at a pipe coating plant, him being disolusioned with a petty-bourgeois ideology, and that rubbing off on me made me think I am "Middle class," thus making Marxism less appealing (not to mention I was 14 so reading Marx was mind boggling hard).
He lost that job later that year due to some owners of a company, that the one he worked for depeneded on, sold their plant for real estate land, forcing us to move to a cheaper place in the US.
That made me notice that I was second rate to those people and created the material conditions for me to be interested in, and (progressivley) better understand Marx. And I kept walking left until I hit RedStar2000 just stopping short of Anarchism.
Why are using the damn Capitalist Socio-Economic classes UrbanNinja? They're tottally crap. My dad made crap compared to those owners but that's not why we were subordinate, it's because they owned what he worked on to feed himself.
RS2K has a posse
My mom and dad divorced when i was 3 and i currently live with her and her side of the family. They are christian and there not rich but there pretty well off. My dad's family have no specific religion and are middle class.
[FONT=Courier New]Red- The blood of angry men.[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New]Black- The dark of ages past.[/FONT]
Son of a divorced parent. who is a member of law enforcement. yes... i know... woo... i was raised with no instruction on politics or religion. i saw what happened to us when we got fucked over. my parent is not a racist at all, and is actually some what of a whistle-blower when bad shit happens in the workplace. its made life a bit harder(management tends to retaliate when someone calls them out on something) but i see that my parent is NOT conservative, im guessing non-aligned. ive also stated my political opinions, with NO opposition. on the grounds that i have a right to believe what i want.
its been a gradual realization for me. ill have to thank my European history class for making me realize what a twat i used to be (right wing) that was just the beginning though.
it really all depends. i think school was a pretty big factor though. without education, id probably be on Stormfront in a few years
Hmm, I was brought up pretty interestingly, I was raised by my petty-bourgeois grandparents for the early years (mum was young) and they always side with cap-interests. Then from age 2-8 or 9 my working class mother raised me. She raised me to explore everything, question everthing, and I was never coerced into any lifestyle. She's pretty non-aligned, but has always had contempt for the rich and never trusted the govn't.
Then till I was about 15 I lived with my working class father (who was a tool) and petty bourgeois stepmom, dad never really did much teaching, but my stepmom was a hard authoritarian/republican/sociopath etc etc
I broke a lot of my materialistic upbringings from early on when I was living with my dad, and all my best freinds lived in some pretty shitty impoverished parts of the neiborhood. I got most of my early politics from punk music
Then when visiting Northern California one year, I met a guy who told me all about the Spanish Civil war, and I became a libertarian communist, and slowly advanced to where I am now.
My music tastes evolved alongside my radicalism as well
One thing that the so-called revolutionary parties and organizations do well is keeping all the idiots in one place.
Here are some explanations:
1. Socialization: Most people get the initial views they hold from parents and society.
2. Experience: Individuals who have positive or negative experiences due to the current social system may bias their political viewpoints as a result.
For example, a child who succeeds may enjoy capitalism. An adult who can't provide for their family because of a union strike my dislike unions as a result. When people like or dislike something, they don't automatically think, "hey, how might I be wrong?" People take feelings for what they are until shown they are mistaken. They should probably be more self-reflective and open-minded, though.
Wealth: Individuals of particular wealth brackets will bias their views about whether income inequalities are unjust due to a lack of understanding. Rich say the poor are lazy. The poor say the rich are corrupt. The poor have a better argument, but the media isn't funded by them.
Compassion: People in wealthy situations may be motivated towards promoting communist thought. It's still particularly difficult for anyone to give up their wealth because of what wealth does. Once you've had an enjoyable experience, and gained the ability to sustain it, you don't want to give it up. If you had the chance to live as a billionaire for a day, I'm not sure you should say yes. It'll never happen again, and you'll be pissed off about it because it's "other people" who are preventing you.
Rationality: Cooperation can be a rational option for wealthy individuals. I'm not convinced communism actually sacrifices profit and individual gain for community good. I think it maximizes profit as well. I have yet to really formulate this idea. Marx might oppose it. Basically, I think historical achievements motivated by justice, compassion, curiosity, et cetera, have been of a much higher caliber than those motivated by greed. Scientific advancements, as far as I know, didn't happen because Einstein and Newton wanted a new house.
My parents were lower-middle-class christian republicans, and I followed suit until I started learning about government deception, at which point I began drifting socialist.
I've noticed that right-wingers who actually do think about what they believe tend to be class-conscious...and they have a strong focus on tradition and their bloodline. They want to make more money so that their children can be born into a higher socioeconomic class than they had been, and they seem to think it's fair that entire generations have to suffer because if the family works hard enough, eventually they'll be on top.
Along these lines, it's interesting to note that most of these people have startling success stories about a parent or close relative that was born in near-poverty who managed to work 5 or 6 jobs, work their way through college, then go on to make a better than average living wage. It's difficult to convince somebody who believes they have truly representative evidence for the value of hard work that simply working hard is not enough...
Not much of that was directly relevant to the topics at hand, just my unreflected observations.
