U.S. "Terrorism" - Actual numbers?

**Lefty** · 30th January 2003, 23:40

I was browsing through Raisethefist.com, and I clicked the sticker section. At the bottom, there is a poster that says "Get your eyes on the real terrorist" with a picture of bush, and figures of the amounts of people the U.S. has killed. These are obviously inflated numbers, but the poster intrigued me nonetheless. Does anyone have more accurate numbers of the U.S.'s killing of innocent civilians?

**Red Revolution** · 31st January 2003, 12:33

Accurate numbers!!! You've got to be kidding. They drop a bomb and thats it, they dont care how many they've killed!!!

**RynoISM** · 6th February 2003, 17:13

No matter what war is fought innocent people are killed. I do not believe the government of the US purposely kills innocent civilians. If NATO or the UN ever was presented with evidence of this the US would roast. America is a leading country, but it cannot overpower the world.

**bluerev002** · 13th February 2003, 01:10

I doubt that they were going for accuracy. Ive seen those posters, and i think they were making a statements that the US has killed more ppl than anyone else, and that they are the "real" terroist. and look at it this way, Bush has not been in office long enough to kill that many ppl, i think that poster was made last year, during his second year or presidency. so i doubt that Bushy boy could have killed that many. i think that bush is there cuz he looks like a stupid monkey, thus moking all the presidents.

So in short, the numbers were PROBABLY not meant to be accurate, and the picture of bush PROBABLY didnt signify that it was Bush behind all those statistics.

My opinion of course

**CruelVerdad** · 19th February 2003, 01:09

I totally agree with Red Revolution....
who realy knows!?

**praxis1966** · 19th February 2003, 06:28

No one will ever know how many innocent civilians the U.S. has killed in combat. If anyone was able to come up with quantifiable evidence capable of incriminating us of war crimes, it wouldn't matter. Nobody wants to bite the hand that feeds them all of that foriegn aid. If they were to do so, however, I think they should start by trying and convicting Henry Kissinger. I'd pay to see that.

Larissa · 19th February 2003, 12:55

The US government has, in the last 50 years, harmed so many nations and killed so many people that I've lost count. The demonstrations for peace are simply showing that American people (among all the other peoples that are demonstrating for peace) are not a ruthless, megalomaniac people, and that they do not subscribe to their ruthless, megalomaniac dictator possessing the means and motivation to harm citizens of
other nations.

**Arkham** · 19th February 2003, 15:41

You would be completely and utterly wrong to assert that the US government hasn't killed innocents intentionally. They did it at Dresden, they did it nagasaki and hiroshima, and they did it all the time in vietnam. Look at mai le. The documentation exists to prove all of this. They dropped the bomb on hiroshima despite repeated protests that our own POWs were in there. Don't live under the delusion that we don't terrorize people, because all of those instances are exactly that.

**Lefty** · 25th February 2003, 19:47

I see..how would one go about making a poster about this? Because of the lack of numbers, it seems kinda pointless to make a poster. I'll ponder it for awhile.

*ponder*

**Sol** · 26th February 2003, 03:09

It's a generally accepted figure that the US killed (knowingly) around 1 million highland natives along the Vietnamese- Cambodian border during the war. Napalm and Agent O is nasty shit.

And I have no idea how many innocent civilians were killed in the fighting with the VC... both sides butchered a lot of civilians.

**Ian** · 26th February 2003, 07:24

I think those numbers are fairly accurate actually. Fairly conservative estimates, I've heard 2 million in the case of Indonesia. LONG LIVE THE PKI!

(Edited by Ian Rocks at 8:33 am on Feb. 26, 2003)

**CubaVictoria1983** · 9th March 2003, 04:07

Even though the numbers are not accurate and I doubt anyone will ever have a lifetime worth of time to accurately count deaths that are directly or indirectly related to the US, I still want that poster. I've had a magazine cut out of Bush with the Title " Terrorist Alert!" on my door for like a year. I want the other poster too.

dodobird · 9th March 2003, 04:44

Hello everybody: you can get some hints about the astounding numbers of victims of Amerikan terror from the great book "The Trial of Henry Kissenger". Also from The CIA and Che (I read this in Greek, transl. from Spanish but it's probably in english also). Thank you ARKHAM for remembering the dead of the Dresden firebombing. you hope we don't have to live through something like that. Can you tell me why there is no protest going on in USA??? why does everyone seemto believe the propaganda of their illegally elected government? if you are US citizen go to www.votetoimpeach.org and sign to impeach the idiot marionette & his buddies.

Larissa · 9th March 2003, 23:15

PLEASE, take a look at this!
http://www.granma.cu/ingles/mar03/vier7/10...10posada-i.html
"WITH THE COMPLICITY OF MIAMI TV
Posada reaffirms his determination to continue with his terrorist acts

BY JEAN-GUY ALLARD -Special for Granma International-

FAR from showing the slightest remorse for his crimes, Luis Posada Carriles - the man who ordered the destruction of a Cubana airplane in mid-flight in 1973; organized innumerable attacks in various countries; owned up to his role in the terror campaign that took the life of Fabio di Celmo in Havana; conspired on numerous occasions to assassinate the Cuban President - has now reaffirmed his willingness to continue committing acts of terrorism.

Posada recently reiterated his intentions in an interview with Miami’s Canal 23, in which he defended terror with impunity, which comes as no surprise to anybody in the city where the FBI protects terrorists and arrests those who infiltrate terrorists’ ranks to put a stop to their criminal plans.

“We won’t lose faith”, said the septuagenarian mercenary, seated in front of a Panamanian flag in what appears to be an office inside El Ranacer prison, where he is incarcerated with his three accomplices.

Speaking slowly and with difficulty, this individual (with more than four decades devoted to illegal activity and terror behind him) stated: “We will go on with the struggle…because we owe it ourselves… we’re all united to do what we have to do…may we never lose our militancy!”

Posada has had problems in speaking since he was shot at on February 28, 1990 in Guatemala: he was hit several times and one of the bullets pierced his tongue.

The terrorist made his declaration of faith with the total complicity of Canal 23 reporter Rafael Orizondo. Throughout the interview, Orizondo speaks with admiration and compassion for his subjects. He repeatedly refers to Posada as “El Mambi” and also “the Combatant”, although he had to admit that Posada has served time in a Venezuelan jail, from where he “escaped” in 1984. Orizondo further elaborates that Jiménez Escobedo was imprisoned in Mexico and Remón and Novo Sampoll in the United States. He carefully avoided mentioning the reasons why.

“The four anti-Castro combatants are suffering from different ailments, but this doesn’t dint their morale and determination”, said the reporter whilst the camera films the three criminals. For some reason that Orizondo fails to explain, Gaspar Jiménez - the old hired assassin who recently stated: “I have not violated Panamanian law” - is noticeable by his absence.

Always at Posada’s side, and on better form than ever, is Pedro Remón - who murdered diplomat Félix García Rodríguez, in the middle of a New York street, and also Eulalio José Negrin, in full view of his son; plus Guillermo Novo Sampoll, the murderer who executed former Chilean Foreign Minister Orlando Letelier and his colleague Ms. Ronnie Moffit. Sampoll appears to have gained a little weight since his last public appearance.

The three prisoners were dressed very elegantly. The report from the Mafioso television station did at least clearly show the conditions of “detention” if detention is really the word for what the four inmates are “suffering”.

In fact, the first part of the report was recorded in a modern office complete with trophy, flag, porcelain pieces and elegant paintings; later it moved outside to the patio, next to an ordinary wire fence through which it was possible to see several parked cars…

All together indicating an almost non-existent level of security. (Article goes on)..."

**Rebal16** · 22nd March 2003, 21:23

I would just like to say that pres Bush is more dangerous than Bin Laden could ever be just think about it. And yes castro americans pres is even stupider than he looks

**Xvall** · 22nd March 2003, 22:30

Actually, lefty, those numbers probably were not blown out of proportion. More than 2,000,000 Vietnamese were killed in that war.

**Moskitto** · 23rd March 2003, 19:39

the thing with that poster is When did the US commit atrocities in Hungary?

**Dirty Jersey** · 26th March 2003, 11:08

i can see how we can be viewed as terrorists. check this shit out.
www.deoxy.org/wc/warcrim2.htm
an interesting read but highlight charge number 4. its fucked up and i dont think many americans knew about these crimes. also assassination is a form of terrorism and we been involved with that shit for years.

dodobird · 29th April 2003, 06:53

Dirty Jersey
I tried the link but explorer won't go there.
big brother netscape doesn't even let me open an account for the browser...
so can you e-mail me the page you mentioned at [email protected] or [email protected] and fill me in.
Just saw an very interesting documentary on Greek National TV last night, mainly about the invasion of Cyprus: the greek journalist Dimitrakopoulos was on (on of this eras great minds, an investigative journalist who fortunately was not assasinated although the cia certainly tried, talking about his uncovering of the ESSO Pappas donations to the Nixon-Agnew election campaign and the spiderweb of CIA, Junta and Turkish invasion of Cyprus (blocked during Johnson admin, supported by Nixon) (now they're telling us... the evidence of this was the major caca that the watergate burglers were bungling about looking for, the scandal that could have toppled the amerikan far right: the overt support of the Papadopoulos Junta by the ever-freedom loving shadow government of the USA, supported by the tax dollars of all the complacent "citizens". ..what democracy? what citizens? they don't even know the meaning of those word. )
My dear fellow forum participants: as obvious as a sore thumb, the Amerikan problem: but it is from within, no one else is to blame: Educate Yourselves and Your Children, learn to think internationally, and get out there and Vote to Impeach Bush, vote for a decent candidate in the coming elections: WHO??? who is fit to run the country? who can stand up for the people against the big business-war monger clique. there you have a genuine problem because anyone who even pokes there head out has been, guess what, assasinated.
Ask M.L. King's widow.
Is it possible to get a general idea of the age range of this forum's participants? would that be rude? I am interested to know if young people are on this thread, for cetainly many of the comments are...youthful. I am 48 years old and have lived in Greece for almost half my life. I believe that my generations a-political blahs are very much responsible for the rise to such heights of power of the current body politik in the US: after so many left wingers, activists, Black leaders of every persuasion, peace-lovers, revolutionaries etc were killed in the 60's and 70's all up and down the Americas and wherever the tentacles of bulls..t reach, many people lost heart and devoted themselves to their kids, their art, their garden, their business, their yoga or whatever. and look what an extreme condition the world is in now 30 years later...
Happy 1st of May to everyone and I hope we can make a better world for our kids, they don't deserve this pile of s..t we have heaped on the planet.
dodobird

**Severian** · 6th May 2003, 07:32

Here's an article with some good estimates on deaths in the first Gulf War. Plus, the UN Food and Agric. Org. estimates about 400,000 dead children from the first few years of the blockade of Iraq.

Something like 120,000 in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. About 3 million people died during the Korean War - most killed by the U.S., esp during heavy bombing - Pyonyang was pretty completely levelled.

Estimates on the Vietnam-Laos-Cambodia war vary, probably two or three million.

That's for starters.

Edit: I wasn't able to bring up that site. But in general, I think it's a problem if facts aren't accurate. Communists should always tell the truth, and as materialists, our conclusions should be based on facts.

(Edited by Severian at 8:33 am on May 6, 2003)

(Edited by Severian at 8:42 am on May 6, 2003)

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