I hate all this Russian Revolution Crap

[Invader Zim]

It's true it failed so why is every one so god dammed supportive of it. What did it achive :-
1. A ruthless dictatorship (about 3 of them)
2. 1 Mass genocide
3. A communist state run by a load of power crazy frauds stating they were communists.
4. Overall not very much.

Come on lets support a successful communist country such as Cuba.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

And one thing that I am in favor of if there comes a new leftist state is that expression of ur self should a have high priority. In the Soviet Union ppl were braindead if u ask me. The ppl's thinking weren't really motivated to do anything.(some really nice art and music works but it was state runned and mostly propaganda) In a new state we should reward thinking in a way. Give opertunity's to selfexpression. Comments on the state shouldn't be forbidden. No national anthem at school. In history class a lot of information about ppl who fought for theirs and other ppl's freedom(Spartacus, ML King, Ghandi, Che etc etc) and their believes. And a lot of discussion in History class, now its only listening to the teacher's chit chat.( the worst thing is that I know the most of the stuff, so my favorite hour gets quite boring)
Discussing at school will let ppl think for themselfs and that will propably mean the end of the propaganda in this shape of today. Ppl will then not just believe in Rambo's Afgan hero's wich turned into "terrorists" al the sudden although their plans are the same the last few centuries.(talking about muslim fundamentalists)

[Ian]

The Russian Revolution was just that a Revolution, but Cuba was a coup d'etat, the people only fully rallied behind the party after the bay of pigs invasion when peasants took up arms and attacked the invaders who had destroyed their crops by lighting feral cats on fire and making them run through the sugar cane (some of them ran up to 2 kms).

I don't think cuba is the perfect model for a revolution although we must support it whole-heartedly

[Behind enemy lines]

AK47, I hope your not calling comrade Lenin a ruthless dictator.

[redstar2000]

AK47, one thing that's operating here is a habit of "emotional identification" with this or that "leader" and /or country.

Even though we OUGHT to be cool and objective about revolutions in other countries, let's face it, we WANT to win so badly that we are prepared to overlook a LOT of damaging evidence in our eagerness to jump on the "bandwagon".

We WANT to WIN--someplace, sometime, somewhere. If not Russia, then China. If not China, then Albania. If not Albania, then Cuba or North Korea or Vietnam. And the same, if not MORE so, with personalities. You've seen the threads on this board...there will, unfortunately, be MANY more.

What to do? Contribute to or start threads that look to the FUTURE, not the past. 20th century communism is dead or dying; what will be the nature of 21st century communism? THAT is the real question.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from redstar2000 on 3:39 am on Dec. 13, 2002
AK47, one thing that's operating here is a habit of "emotional identification" with this or that "leader" and /or country.

Even though we OUGHT to be cool and objective about revolutions in other countries, let's face it, we WANT to win so badly that we are prepared to overlook a LOT of damaging evidence in our eagerness to jump on the "bandwagon".

We WANT to WIN--someplace, sometime, somewhere. If not Russia, then China. If not China, then Albania. If not Albania, then Cuba or North Korea or Vietnam. And the same, if not MORE so, with personalities. You've seen the threads on this board...there will, unfortunately, be MANY more.

What to do? Contribute to or start threads that look to the FUTURE, not the past. 20th century communism is dead or dying; what will be the nature of 21st century communism? THAT is the real question.

That is a very cool point of view. May be a less radical approach to communism would be better, more socialism than extreamism, but who knows what 21st century will bring?

[Moskitto]

I can assure you that AK47 was not calling comrade Lenin a dictator,

[KickMcCann]

RedStar:

If Socialism/Communism is about social justice and human rights, then how can the existence of a country like N. Korea be considered a "victory" for the human race? Revolutionarys should stick to the noble principles they believe in, not names and titles that tyrants give themselves. Kim Jung il and Castro are Monarchists claiming to be socialists/communists, Just as Saddam Hussein says he represents and fights for the Iraqi people; what a load of horseshit.

[redstar2000]

Well, KM, you certainly have a valid point. Clearly the Kim Dynasty is well within the tradition of "reforming emperors" or "modernizing emperors" that have characterized that part of the world for many centuries. (Other examples: Mao, Ho, Peter the Great, and, to some extent, Stalin.)

Fidel Castro doesn't quite fit that pattern, though. In some ways he resembles a "humane Stalin"; in other ways, he appears to have gone MUCH further than other 20th century communists to trying to establish some kind of workable pre-communist society. Cuba, in my view, is a TOUGH CALL.

But, YES, revolutionaries SHOULD "stick to their principles". If it were only as easily done as said...

[ComradeJunichi]

I support Cuba with all my revolutionary spirit, with all the red in my blood.

The Russian Revolution didn't fail. It wasn't perfect, but it didn't fail.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

The Russian revolution changed more in the world than the most ppl think. The European monarchy's changed their policies heavily because their citizens got inspiration from the Russian Revolution. Suddenly parlemants rose up and liberasts were put in. If they hadn't done that ,Europe would be communistic too or atleast very leftist. And the monarchy's gone.

(Edited by CCCP at 12:25 am on Dec. 15, 2002)

[Invader Zim]

Europe is far more leftist than it used to be, in britain before WWII the country was run far more from the upper classes, who tried to stop any reform because it may dammage there chanses of making more £££. But now we are far more liberal than before.

[Socialist Pig]

The whole world is more right wing now. Since the about the 70s-80s everyone has turned away from the Keyensian way of thinking. Government has privatized more and more state property.

A few european countries that have slight lefist tendancies does not mean all of europe is lefist.

[Bolschewik]

AK47,

Just off the top of my head, here are the acheivements of the Russian Revolution:

- repealed all anti-semetic laws at the time the Jews were heavily persecuted by the Tsar and the Russian Orthodox Church.
- became the first nation in the world to give women equal political rights as men
- withdrew russia from the great imperialist war
- introduced massive land reform. took private owned land of the aristocracy and distributed it to the peasants, to whom it rightfully belonged to.

most of the problems of the revolution could be rooted from the reactionary western capitalist nations including United States and Great Britain invading to suffocate the baby in its cradle so to say, to crush the revolution in russia.

the revolution would lead russia to become the world's second largest economy, even after enduring two cataclysmic invasions from the imperialist west. on a side note, there would be no "ak47" without a russian revolution, and your glorious cuban revolution would have been crushed by the imperialists if the russian revolution had not happen.

[nz revolution]

We meet again Mr. M-16 dressed up as an AK.

You hate it? Childish nonsense I say.

Learn from the mistakes of our fore-fathers

As comrade Bolschewik said it did a lot of good.

It shook the world.

Long live Leninism!

[booga]

You Go AK! Right on!

This is a new thing!

[booga]

I find Russia quite interesting, in fact I like to read about them for to me they hold certain truths.

Recently, it has been stated by high Russian officials that they are leaning more towards the "Holy City" way. You know what I mean?

[nz revolution]

right on? no way.

This is new crap thing.

Your post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[Behind enemy lines]

We must acknowledge Lenin's achievements. He created the first working class state. That is all, acknowledgement. The reason I value the russian revolution is because it gives me hope, hope that the working class can take power. That is why it is important. For me, that is one of the only reasons.

Wisdom from Lenin, mistakes, success, experience, That is why it is important.

Learning.

[nz revolution]

Man can you imagine having being involved in the red revolution? Imagine the joy of the communists getting power.

As BEL said it gives hope that a workers' state can be created.

Dont be such a negative Nancy AK