How did they do it?

[KickMcCann]

Could someone explain to me how the various revolutionaries in the many revolutions were able to gain the support of the masses? How were leftist revolutionaries able to gain support from more conservative people who would normally be reluctant to radical social change?
Did they just cirvumvent the conservatives or were they able to gain their support?
There have been a lot of revolutions (USA, France, Britain, Russia, China, Cuba, South Africa, all of Eastern Europe) and many of them were carried out differently, but they were still able to rally together many different kinds of people, so how did they do it?

[thursday]

The promise of socialism, which means the promise of liberation from the oppresive government of the time (be it the Czars, Batista or Chiang Kai-sek). The promise of social change is a popular one in any country where the conditions of capitalism are so brutal that people just cannot stand for it anymore.

[Umoja]

Their has to be two very distinct classes. This is why a revolution in the United States would be hard as a large percent of the Population is Middle Class, and perfectly content to stay that way.

[redstar2000]

It IS one of the most puzzling aspects of major social change. There have been revolutionaries of one kind or another around for at least the last 800 years...and, like us, they were always yapping their heads off, mostly in near total obscurity.

Then, all of a sudden, people "decide" to listen, and when enough of them listen and decide to act, the "old order" which had seemed a tower of strength crumbles away into dust, like the bones of a mummy exposed to the open air.

But WHY does it happen like that in one place and not another, at one time and not another? It's not simply what we perceive as "bad conditions", that's for sure. Bad conditions are almost universal in class societies...but most of the time, people accept those bad conditions: "that's just the way the world is".

For example, I grew up in the U.S. in the 1950s...a period infamous for reactionary smugness. In retrospect, it seems to me now that there was "a feeling in the air" (among the young) that "something" was going to happen...but NO ONE predicted the upheavals that were only just over the horizon.

In practical terms, I'm reduced to saying: act AS IF there will be a new upheaval SOON...because we just can't tell, goddammit.

It's not a very satisfactory answer, but it's the only one I can offer. Be wary of "Marxists" who claim to "predict" the next upheaval, by the way; they're just guessing and their track record is actually worse than chance. You can't use Marxism to predict the future in any useful detail; it's not a substitute for astrology or tarot.

[Umoja]

Okay, I just hit reset and earsed what I said.

A revolution needs to happen, we can't wait for a moment. We need to make the moment. Here in the USA, I'd base much of that potential in the War on Iraq, and further terrorist action. If the War on Iraq drags on, and terrorist strike again, their will probubly be open opposition to the government, possibly worse then during Vietnam, as this strikes very close to home. This would be key, but otherwise, those opposed to war can see that the war reaps us little benefits.

Realistically, to start a revolution it must be community wise. I think it'd be best to start in the poor Black and Hispanic communities around the country, but to also strongly incorporate the white and Jewish poor. This would create a strong lower class resistance. Considering many middle class workers also hold jobs that have Unions, their potential could be tapped as well. New alternative "Leftist" schools could be established, and numerous other things within the system but real change will come with direct community control, and the proof of it's benefits.....

I've been writting on the subject, and I can pull some of my drafts off if anyone is curious.

[Fabetz]

Revoluçao nos Estados Unidos...
nisso nao acredito muito nao....
A industrua bélica de voces, que sustenta guerras no mundo todo, sempre dá um jeito de comandar tudo, seja reprimindo qualquer tipo de foco de movimento contestador ou seja corrompendo os "lideres" equerdisdas desse país...

Tem lideres esquerdistas nos EUA?

[Umoja]

Okay, I can't speak Portugese.

Here is some of the thing from my writting on Revolution. Please Critique.

Political issues have kept oppressed people traditionally oppressed. To change this, we must form our own smaller districts in the cities. We need to vote on all issue that affect us not only at work but also in our apartments, and in our sections of the major cities. The capitalist don’t want this of course, if we control ourselves politically, we will be able to better ourselves outside the borders their system has set up to keep us down. These new smaller communities will have the following duties-
·The general community will hold an open congress open to the entire section of the city, those who aren’t of African decent but live in the community are also welcome, these communities will decide how public services are to be divided among everyone, they will also vote on all issue effecting the community. Each meeting, a person may elect to be the person in charge of keeping order in the meeting if it is communally agreed upon.
·Key general community issues will include a community service of a decided time to be assigned to everyone in the community. The people will be given the choice of what they wish to do wish to week, which includes cleaning the city, re-paving the roads, serving as a member of a jury and other things generally done by the government public services. Also issues of capitalist oppression will be voted on to be opposed.
·The workers committees will be organized based on each job. These will resemble unions accept that membership will be completely voluntary. Union meetings will include things like strikes, pay raises, and other issues that effect workers. These workers committees will be organized with other unions to create a powerful work force to help push for workers justice. *Note Economic information, included black business and public work as an alternative instead of un-employment.
·Their will be an external committee as well, which will be in charge with the advancement of political agendas in the capitalist system using black numbers as well as other like minded people to help put people with social justice in mind of the larger community. This is where many other groups have faltered, to create a socialist society we must work inside and outside.
These ideas will allow the lower class in the inner cities, which are inevitably people of color to rise up and despite their lack of money prove they have power in the system, and help bring change to it. It should be noted that this is a community process not a racial process completely. These ideas will help to better the community as a whole as well as the people.


Looking back on it, this isn't to clear, but I was tired and angry when I wrote it.

[tommyt1alacrana]

"Revolution is for the privilege and engineered by the privilege. "

- Thomas More, the prophet of social progress

"Universalistic ideologies can be no better than universalistic religions for grounding social order. The intended means of keeping group feeling weak will fail if it is impossible, as seems certain, to keep delivering ever-greater opportunity, prosperity and equality. Solidarity is based on connections of a sort that prosperity weakens and careerism and equality deny. We feel solidarity with those on whom we durably rely and with whom we share something specific. As a practical matter, the basis of solidarity in a modern consumer welfare state is therefore likely to be the ruling elite's will to power rather than a cooperative struggle for economic ends. However, basing solidarity on the struggle for dominion of a small ruling group that defines itself by ideology creates the risk of ever-growing radicalism, separation from the rest of society and eventual loss of power."

-Ibn Khaldun

[tommyt1alacrana]

A revolution must be able to indentify and preserve that which it stands.

It must have in place simple rules to follow so there will be no corruption of the body.

There must be a shared conscienceness of the group and each one must bear the burders of one another.

They share the same yoke. The must be a supernatural people.

Power is required to be successful in a revolution.

The people must go against their nature and desire those things necessary to be successful in a revolution.

These things being, wisdom, power, and the ability to assume at given times a variety of different roles.

"Do not be conformed to this world yet be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." Word.

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They promise them freedom, yet they themselves are slaves of corruption; for whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of Jesus, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last STATE has become worse for them than the first.