Why is 11-9 that bad??

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

11-9(how I think about it at the moment)


First of all I regret the 3000 deaths ,among them many workers. But I find the majority of the US citizens way too ignorant. Like Atari Teenage Riot said: "You should feel quilty if you are just watching."

After Rambo 3 the support and respect for the Majahideen (now Al'qaida, Taliban and N. Alliance) grew. In 1995 I even saw on CCN an interview with Osama Bin Laden, where the following sentence really shocked me: "Mister Bin Laden, the American people really admire you. You are like a prince who leaves his wealth and material comfort behind to free the Afgan people".

And a president has been elected ,so you can't say that the US citizens were/are completly innoncent. But that must be judged per person( it could be that we lost comrades there).

There is a thread here somewhere "White Guilt"(atleast something like that).
I said in the thread :" You should feel guilty and ashamed if you are taking on advantage of the crimes of your ancestors, not if you are doing what you can do to straighten the unequalitys." Same way with the acts of the US govern and the CIA in Afganistan. Bush knew about it, Clinton knew it ,each president knew it, but they didn't correct their mistakes. If you give a hit, you can expect one back. In that way the fault of the attack isn't completly blamable on Al'qaida only.

Another thing that makes me very mad: the US spent 5 billion dollar in the shape of drugs, weapons, money and trainings ,but gives a few hundert million to rebuild Afganistan. While everyone knows destroying is easyer than building. One explosief can destroy a house, while it takes a whole lot more of effort, money and time to built it.

I agree that the firemen and coppers wouldn't run into the collapsing building if they knew it would collapse.

And "my" country hasn't been liberated, it's now a puppet of the US. While Karzai bastard has a nice position, the suffering of the Afgan people continues.
------------------------------------------------------
(Original piece)
Why is 11-9 such a bad thing. Cause of the human sacrifice. The thing that struck america is their own fault. they started helping osama. Knowing of his ideas and knowing that someday he will attack america. Thats way years before he did his first bombing with al'qaida they had their eyes on him. And the human sacrifice isnt that much compared with the ridiculous numbers caused by the CIA and the american government. Afganistan(2million ppl)And here 2buildings were lost.(afganistan in his whole)

Is this just another excuse to attack targets that the CIA is really pissed off about.Like iraq

Plz answer this one


(Edited by CCCP at 1:07 am on Dec. 24, 2002)

[truthaddict11]

well, bush and osama are getting exactly what they want, a permanent war, the bombing of afghanistan killed over 6,000 people and now bush and company want to kill more in Iraq. All for oil.
I agree that america did do things to cause the attacks to happen but to say. it is bad because terrorism by groups like al'quieda, the militant groups like Timothy McVaiegh was part of or groups like the CIA any lose of innocent life is bad. Terrorism has many faces.

[peaccenicked]

Innocent civilians died . The American system might be at fault but it cant be racistly blamed on the people.
The workers have no country.

[IRANeAZAD5]

What gos around comes around

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

To peaccenicked

I understand what ur saying, but did anyone even took a look back when they left afganistan. The americans got what they wanted(destruction of the soviet union) but left afganistan alone full of problems. While saying in propaganda movies that the afgan ppl love to life in the desert.After a visit of the CIA and the soviet union afganistan wasnt much more than that. And the ppl that the american government(Rambo3 was made with american taxmoney in order of the government) called "afgan friends" were nothing more than the mujahideen. So i find the 3.000 death a small sacrifice to bring this under the attention. But instead that ppl got to know the crimes of the CIA they abussed the whole afganwar for there cause. the american governemnt "requested" to not to show crying dying or any negative looking afgans, americans or allies of the americans.

[peaccenicked]

I dont think acts of terror bring much attention to the cause of the terrorists. Hamas are distracting people from US backed Isreali agression.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

To peacenicked

It is a shame that Bush hasnt spoken in al of its speeches over 11-9 over the CIA support to "uncle sammie" or wellknow under the name sama bin laden.
Or that it is their own fault that al'qaida got so strong. They have influenced the media so the media didnt tell anything to the public over the support of america. But i hoped that the american government had learned his lesson. But instead they turned from animals into savages. That s what i meant. But still they are warned the next timt that they think to support a group that is anti america

[hamdancer]

To CCCP: I understand what you are saying, but I think there is a slight mistake in your thinking. I gather that you are not an American, and your mistake comes in that you are refering to the government as "Americans". In reality, the citizens of America have no control over what goes on, at least not "democratically", as America touts itself as being. I personnally can't stand this government, but I can't really do anything about it. Some would say move, but this is my home, I love the land, not the government, I'm sure you understand. Acts of terrorism are acts of ignorance, no matter what, especially when "innocent" people are killed. Hell, even when "guilty" people are killed. It doesn't matter what chunk of earth you are on.

[timbaly]

It was a bad thing because innocent people died. What more can be said.

[American Kid]

Well, well, well..........Look who slithered his way into the History forum.

So, now to my "friend" CCCP.......

Hi, CCCP! How are you? Good. Nice to meet you (at least it would have been). I'm the Kid. You're quite an angry young man. Have many reasons to be, I'll admit. I would be too if I'd been bombed when I was three and saw people die. I understand (as much as I guess I'm able to...............).

It's unfortunate you feel this way. About a number of things:

1) First of all it's truly sort of sad you can look at the murder of 3000 people and not see it as a "big deal." In fact, it's profoundly tragic that you've allowed yourself to become so de-censitized to others' suffering, that you aren't even able to "grasp" the scope of it's...............I don't know, "evil."

It doesn't matter (and as a result, I have little sympathy for) any of the "shit" you went through as a child. You should still, as a human being, retain the ability to IDENTIFY when things go horribly wrong, and that the wanton deaths of a few thousand people, regardless where they're from, what skin color, or whether or not you knew them, is a terrible, TERRIBLE, thing.

I mean, dude, there were people who came out of Auschwitz and still found it in themselves to live out the rest of their lives with a dignified compassion still left in their hearts for their fellow man------------DESPITE what they went through (which makes what you went through look like the Playboy mansion).

It doesn't make you a pussy not to.

2) It's too bad you feel America brought ALL this shit on itself. That's like blaming the battered wife for getting beat up by her husband.

She shouldn't've burned the pot roast, right?

Negative. Jesus I hate this saying, but two wrongs----they don't make a right. Any circumstantial evidence that America knew of the attacks, or knew of their imminence but didn't act, is just that----circumstantial. And rediculous/ insulting. I mean, what was it? The oil pipeline in Afganistan? Is that this week's conspiracy theory? The gov needed an excuse to take out the Taliban so they let their guys fly commerical aircraft into our skyscrapers?

Fuck, this is stupid. There won't be a "number 3." Fucking imbecile. The whole reason I'm "here" was because I saw CCCP's post in S vs. C. where he said he was Afgan.................. I thought it would be a good oppertunity to actually speak to someone from Afganistan. Which, no doubt, I was extremely "excited" about. I decided I was going to PM him. One of the reason's I love this site is all the different people I get to meet from all around the world (yo, how you livin' in Scotland, Peacce?).

However, when I hit his profile, I saw the last post he'd made was in some horrible thread called, "Why is 9-11 so bad?" And I cringed. I thought, "Oh no..........don't let that be this kid......."

Well sure enough, I tap it, find myself in the History forum, and there it is, in stark black and white: biased, Al-jeezera influenced, bigoted, UNeducated, anti-Americanism. Cold, stoic, staring me in the face.

A real, real tragedy.

I think one of the main reasons our "friend" CCCP here can speak of the horrible attacks on my country with such a disturbingly disaffected nonchalantness, is because, I'm sure, he didn't know a single solitary person who was in either of those towers.

Or (ha, I'm fairly positive) the Pentagon

Or any of the brave (take a page out of their book, CCCP) people on United Flight 93.

Or really any Americans at all for that matter.

And it's a real shame. As it looks like he won't be, at all, any time in the near future, either................

-AK *just sighs and shakes his head*

(Edited by American Kid at 4:26 am on Nov. 4, 2002)

[American Kid]

I'm all for any number of "minuts" for anyone who's ever died for any reason.

minuts
-AK

[RedCeltic]

how many times do we have to argue about 9-11 on this board?

[American Kid]

As many times as we have to.

btw, it should put a smile on your face, Celtic, that I'm voting for Jill Stien tomorrow for the governor's race in MA. And Peter White for my state Rep.

I actually met a couple of Stien's campaign people at my work yesterday. Their heads exploded when I asked where I could get buttons like the ones on their coats. Nice ladies.

-AK

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

First of all i didnt loose my "humaity". And dont you agree that the attention the deaths of 11-9 was way too big. Doesnt the US government give a signal that an american life is more worth than any others(afganistan they killed 6000 ppl with bombing mistakes to revenge 3000 ppl, how is this justifed.) They gave 5billion dollar to the mujahideen (wich later went over to northern alliance, al'qaida and taliban and their attitude was the same 23 years ago) to destroy the soviet forces in afganistan wich also destroyed afganistan. And after bombing afganistan they gave 1billion orso to rebuild it. While everyone knows that destroying is easyer than building.

Second of all. A government cant stand without the support of their ppl. So its nonsens that the american ppl dont support the government ,while they have more than enough reason to rice against it.

How can america ever justify that they just go and kill whole nations for their"national interrests"?

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

i wanna say one thing. I spotted a mistake in my previous text. If you read the piece: They gave 5billion dollar to the mujahideen (wich later went over to northern alliance, al'qaida and taliban and their attitude was the same 23 years ago) to destroy the soviet forces in afganistan wich also destroyed afganistan.

it sounds like the soviet union destroyed afganistan. But what i mean is that the mujahideen destroyed afganistan under heavy CIA support. And dont give me the excuse that they didnt know what the mujahideen were doing.

[American Kid]

Show me proof of these "6,000" people, dude.

I've heard about NINE HUNDRED different head counts regarding civillian casualties in Afganistan. Some as low as 600, the highest I've heard is 3000, realistically.

But 6000? If you're gonna throw stats like THOSE around, site sources (not Al-Jazeera ones either, brah).

No, I do not agree the attention 9/11 got was "way too big." Dude, 3000 people (those numbers, at I can BACK UP, "stats") were killed. AT WORK. Not on the battlefield. Certainly not armed. They were typing at their computer. Or riding the elevator. Or rapping with their work buds about the Yankees. Normal shit. Shit that doesn't entail being blown up for.

Maybe it's the "engish", but I don't understand what the fuck you're trying to say in the second of the first paragraph of your first post, or ANY of the second post. So, whatever, governor..........

Well, actually, support what you're saying about the Mujihadeen destroying the Afganistan with CIA "support."

Dude, why the fuck would the CIA want to destroy Afganistan? Where's the incentive? And this is classic, "the US can do no wrong; no right". So, it's like, your welcome for keeping the Soviets out of your country-----but that's NOT GOOD ENOUGH, because the destruction brought about, as a result of WAR, is our fault, too?

Dude, RELAX.
-AK

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Well "dude" how can i relax if i left behind a smoking crater wich is called afganistan. And the attention for 11-9 is way too big. Every american can tell almost every detail of the 11/9 disaster but you didnt even know about the support of the CIA to the mujahideen. Like the CIA didnt know that someday after destroying the soviet union ,the mujahideen would come after america. They knew this from the beginnig when the mujahideen regurarly reported that they needed more weapon shipments because their weapons had been "robbed". And why are you defending the CIA??And how much money did the families of the death ones of 11/9 receive?? They received way too high numbers of money. You cant decrease someones pain with money and they received way too much money. and the families of the afgans that were hit by american bombs received 50 or 100 dollar. And the thing that really pisses me off is that the afgans needed the money and the americans didnt need 1million dollar. And the clinton administration did negotiate with the taliban for placing a pipeline through afganistan. And if the americans are so pleased to whipe out "terrorists" why didnt they ever helped the afgan resistance groups like RAWA. And if they are so willing to attack saddam cause he is a danger to ppl why didnt they attack the talibans??And maybe ppl didnt just come up with the "classic that the CIA always screws nations for the american interrest".
And every number of deaths of mistake bombing is too high espescially if the american airforce has such tools, that can even bomb at the meter correct. And why are they spending this year 400 billion on military costs if they are such a "peacefull nation". And i didnt come up the number 6000 another guy in this topic did. and isnt it a shame that the american buy their way of if they hit another house with a family in it. they are abusing the fact that afgan ppl cant reach to the media and cant tell of their pain emotions hunger suffering losses of the last 23 years. And what is wrong with al jazeera?? many european(BBC) and american(CNN) stations find it a realible source.

And you havent answered my question what justifes to kill more innoncent ppl to revenge innoncent ppl. Especially in these numbers. And why doesnt the american government give more money and why dont they give greater support to the afgan government. in form of militarys who should guard the nation until afganistan is strong enough to take care of it self. And they gave 5billion dollar in the 80's to the mujahideen in the shape of money weapons drugs(wich were not in afganistan before 1979 and nowadays afganistan is the greatest opium exporter in the world)

[KickMcCann]

One minute for all of the people killed by Gengis Kahn's Mongol Hordes, One minute for all those killed by Alexander the Great's conquests. One minute for all those killed by Ceaser and the Roman Empire. One Minute for all those killed by Napoleon's conquests. One minute for all those killed in the wars between Britain and France. One minute for all those killed by the Catholic church in the Crusades and Inquisitions. One minute for all those killed in the expansion of Islam. One minute for all those killed by cancer. On minute for all those killed by the plaque. One minute for all those killed by Small Pox. On minute for all those killed by AIDS. One minute for all those killed by gunshot wounds, sharp objects, hanging ropes, old age, and heart attacks.

All life is filled with sadness.

[IHP]

"Well, actually, support what you're saying about the Mujihadeen destroying the Afganistan with CIA "support."

Dude, why the fuck would the CIA want to destroy Afganistan? Where's the incentive?"

No the CIA didn't destroy Afghanistan, that would be a rediculous statement. The fact is though, the CIA allowed the destruction of Afghanistan for their own cause. And that was the drag the SU into an unwinnable war that was long and costly. Their own Vietnam if you will.

--IHP