Why did he try to boost the economy through the Sugar canes, instead of listening to Che and industrializing?
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Why did he try to boost the economy through the Sugar canes, instead of listening to Che and industrializing?
well aparently cubas doing very well with its sugar canes.
if i'm to understand correctly, sugar is quite a good export crop.
but it probably would have been a good idea to industrialise.
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I've posted about this before, but here is the history.
Immediately after the revolution, the cubans began to build up the sugar economy. They made a deal with the Russians to purchase oil for their sugar (the USSR was so nice to these nations, it's not even funny). The United States understood this, and the hate for communism led them to a bold move. They ordered Brazil to compete against Cuba for sugar. The sugar market was overflowed and inflated. This is one of the several reasons for the poverty in Cuba.
So why didn't fidel industrialize? Was it that he didn't have the resources? The raw materials? I don't get it.
i was thinking its hard to do so in a 3rd world country. there isnt the money or materials to do so. you may say about the support of the ussr, but they probably didnt want a small 3rd world island as a drain on their resources.
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Fidel did attempt to industrialise and put Che in charge of the industrialisation process however it failed miserably. The USSR sent them 2nd hand trash that forced Che to comment on the new shipment of Soviet arrivals with the statement, "look at the shit they've sent us!". Cuban industrialisation was a failure due to the blockade, lack of parts and the fact that the Cuban economy was never stable or large enough to change hands from agriculture to industry. Industrialisation takes ages and unfortunately for Cubans the government and the island were not and are still not prepared for it, however it is not due to a lack of trying. Che almost ran the economy into the ground with his industrialisation campaign despite his best efforts.
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The real problem is that u must have costumers. And the USSR was one of the few nations that bought products of communistic countrys. When america embargod cuba(any country especially western would be considerd enemy if they broke the embargo) it was for cuba difficult to find costumers and industrialising would fail and it would cost more money than it would bring to table. And you cant build up ur whole economy on sugar.
Let no one charge that socialists have arrayed class against class in this struggle. That has been done long since in the evolution of capitalist society. One class is small and rich and the other large and poor....One consists of capitalists and the other of workers. These two classes are at war. Every day of peace is at the expense of labor. There can be no peace and good will between these two essentially antagonistic economic classes. - Debs
The real problem is that u must have costumers. And the USSR was one of the few nations that bought products of communistic countrys. When america embargod cuba(any country especially western would be considerd enemy if they broke the embargo) it was for cuba difficult to find costumers and industrialising would fail and it would cost more money than it would bring to table. And you cant build up ur whole economy on sugar.
And the USSR was in those days the only communistic country with a reasonable economy. To stablies the communistic countrys they needed a strong economy. And the USSR had to buy all these products of these countrys. well u know that one country cant have the power to have so much money to buy so much products.
Let no one charge that socialists have arrayed class against class in this struggle. That has been done long since in the evolution of capitalist society. One class is small and rich and the other large and poor....One consists of capitalists and the other of workers. These two classes are at war. Every day of peace is at the expense of labor. There can be no peace and good will between these two essentially antagonistic economic classes. - Debs
The socialist government in Cuba did indeed try to industrialize the nation, but the failed due to America's restrictions on trade with Cuba. Another issue that must be brought to light is that the need to industrialize the nation was not as major from 1959 to 1991 because of the huge sum of Soviet aid that Cuba recieved. When the Socialist Bloc. collapsed it remained extremely difficult to industrialize but nevertheless the extremely intelligent and still very-socialist government of Cuba has found a new way to produce capital: tourism.
'We began with a revolutionary people'
Tourism in Cuba does produce a lot of capital, but it also encourages a great deal of inequality. Those lucky enough to work in the tourist trade make hard currency, which is really the only way to live comfortably in Cuba, while the masses fall further and further behind.
Calling that kind of economic growth "intelligent" and "very socialist" is flat wrong.
We have nothing to lose but our chains. We have a world to win. Workers of the world, unite!
A nation cant earn his living with tourism only. I suggest that all the weak country's in the world unite themselves in a tradingsociaty. At this way many country's can start up an industry and create work and solve a lot of social problems in the country.
Let no one charge that socialists have arrayed class against class in this struggle. That has been done long since in the evolution of capitalist society. One class is small and rich and the other large and poor....One consists of capitalists and the other of workers. These two classes are at war. Every day of peace is at the expense of labor. There can be no peace and good will between these two essentially antagonistic economic classes. - Debs
How do the "masses fall further and further behind," exactly? I think you're overdoing the tourist against mainstream workers anti-Castro debate. Sure, perhaps the workers in the tourist industry do make the hard money. But saying something like "the masses fall further and further behind" is a bit too much. Remember, in Cuba doctors live beside dockworkers, and soldiers live beside hotel maids. The "inequality" you refer to is very, very minor.
'We began with a revolutionary people'
Yes, the Cuban masses are very equal....equal in poverty, lol.
<span style=\'color:red\'>"You can probably change more hearts and minds with one good film than with thousands of e-mail pamphlets...." - John Cusack</span>
That's so far from the truth I won't even bother to reply.
'We began with a revolutionary people'
thursday,
Is it far from the truth? They have a great education system, a terrific amount of police and doctors, (even if they don't have adequite supplies)[/i] a low-crime rate, however, are they not poor? They're rich in basic human needs, but it's still a poor country.
<span style=\'color:red\'>"You can probably change more hearts and minds with one good film than with thousands of e-mail pamphlets...." - John Cusack</span>
Well, I think you really need to define poor and poverty. What you must keep in mind is that Cuba is a third world country, and remains one due to the US embargo. However, compare Cuba to any neighbouring countries (Haiti, for instace, and yes, it is probably spelt wrong) and you will see Cuba is by far a better place to live. There are no shanty towns or young and old living on the street, no rampant AIDS-infected homeless people. So when you compare Cuba with other third world nations, it doesn't appear to be in poverty.
However, when you look at Cuba and then at a "first world country" Cuba certainly looks as if it is in poverty. Most automoblies are very, very old and the buildings are too. And yes, the general standard of living is low compared to first world nations.
So is Cuba really a nation with terrible poverty? All things considered, I do not think that it is.
'We began with a revolutionary people'
thursday,
There was no need to differentiate Haiti and Cuba to me, because it was obvious I think that Cuba is better than most third world nations when I wrote about the things it has that most third world nations don't.
There are no shanty towns in Cuba, but there are huge, run-down housing projects, one with over 300,000 people and homes in the countryside with palm-tree thatched roofs, lol. Anyway, Cuba is a second world nation, due to its alliance with the former Soviet Union.
Also, do you think Cuba will become a first world nation if the embargo was lifted? Once that embargo is lifted, Cuba will be flooded with foreign capitalists and the gusanos. A remember a few days ago, newspapers all over Puerto Rico were claiming the embargo was ready to be lifted and that Puerto Rican and USA businesses were just ready to overrun Cuba, ready to bring back the days of Batista.
I don't think Cuba wouldn't have been a success if it was Communist under an embargo-free environment either. Let's see what happens....if Fidelito ever dies.
(Edited by Borincano at 7:53 pm on Nov. 22, 2002)
<span style=\'color:red\'>"You can probably change more hearts and minds with one good film than with thousands of e-mail pamphlets...." - John Cusack</span>
The statement that Cuban socialism needs the embargo to survive is an interesting one that should not be totally discredited. I think though that the Cuban people enjoy having a doctor down the street, and being able to send their children to school as well as having the ability to participate in people's democracy. As long as the Cuban people support the socialist state the rulers of it can put enough restrictions so as to prevent the overflow of foreign capitalists. If the embargo was lifted Cuba would be able to trade with the US and other nations so they could aquire the tools and parts they need to further industrialization and indeed perhaps become a 'first world nation.'
Oh, and as to the second world and third world stuff I can only say whatever you want to call it. I don't like to get into debated over simple matters such as terminology.
'We began with a revolutionary people'
Terminology is important in any discussion, because interpretations vary. What's a democracy? I believe that the embargo has forced Castro to take dictatorial powers, but what about after he dies? Raúl Castro is scheduled to rule, but what about after him? Is Cuba going to go from Dictator to Dictator, or will the people be able to elect their ultimate leader? Trust me, I don't believe the USA is a good democracy, nor has a true democracy ever existed, but the people should at least have the chance to choose the man or woman that will have the most power over their countries.
The USA gov't always interfers in the lives of Latin Americans and always try to demonize its socialist leaders, but at least no one can say Lázaro Cardenas wasn't elected by the people against other candidates of a different ideology, the same for Jacobo Arbenz, Salvador Allende, Daniel Ortega, Ricardo Lagos, Hugo Chávez, and Luiz Lula da Silva.
Also, it's not a matter of debating over silly terminological terms that anyone could and does mix up, it's about having a well-organized, credible post.
First world - Countries in an alliance with the USA during the Cold War.
Second world - Countries in an alliance with the Soviet Union during the Cold War.
Third World - Countries with neither.
Fourth World -Territories or colonies under the power of 1st world nations but under third world conditions, like Puerto Rico.
I didn't just decide to call Cuba a 2nd world nation out of the blue. If you're going to debate, at least use the proper terminology so people could both understand and find credibility in your posts.
(Edited by Borincano at 8:18 pm on Nov. 22, 2002)
<span style=\'color:red\'>"You can probably change more hearts and minds with one good film than with thousands of e-mail pamphlets...." - John Cusack</span>
First of all, thank you very much for your amazing explanation of the numerical world system. I found it truly fascinating and I just couldn’t peel my eyes away from it. How illuminating indeed.
Moving back to the debate now. Cuba is indeed a democratic socialist country, no matter what the right-wingers or Trotskyites may say. The Cuban people actually get involved in their politics, through various people’s organizations such as the UJC for children, the FMC for women, FEU for students, the ANAP for small private farmers as well as the largest Committees for the Defense of the Revolution (CDRs). In this way people become involved. The national parliament, the National Assembly of Popular Power, is directly elected by the people. There are no big media outlets or various political parties save the Communist Party which is by law disallowed to field any candidates. Thus, all candidates are nominated by the people (through town meetings as well as the people’s organizations) and elected by the people. And it’s all grassroots; no major corporate funded campaigning. That is democracy.
And who really knows who will become President after Fidel? Fidel has indeed stated that he desires Raul to have the position, but does that necessarily mean he will? Absolutely not.
'We began with a revolutionary people'
