Josip Broz TITO - Between east and west

[Akula]

In 1980. when he died,.M.tacher,Hussein,Arafat,L.I.Breznev....were just few among hundred world leaders who were at his funeral.who could match that!(just imagine Hussein with american president siting together in the stadium in Belgrade)...
In that time Yugoslavia had democracy like no country in the world.In 1960-es,it was normal that colour folks went to same university like white ones...WE KNOW how it was in the USA back then and even today with that matter...

[new democracy]

i read that in 1,968 there were demonstrations against him under the slogan "Down with the Red Bourgeoisie".

[anarhosocijalist]

You are right new democracy. He was just like any other dictator in an so called socialist regimes, hungry for power and wealth. There was party and military elite that held most of the power, and strong central government that didnt care for needs of other republics in that ridiculus federation which was called Yugoslavia.
Ethnic relations were not harmonius either.

[VolareMIRCantare]

Excuse me!!!!!

When Tito was in power Jugoslavia was like a paradise. I am from Bosnia and I did not live during the time of Tito but any person that I have talked to that did always talked of how great he was and how everyones lives were better while he was in power. Everyone had a job, and a place to live. It was the most developed Eastern European country at the time.

Of course there were people who did not like him, but was there ever a leader of a country that was liked by every single perosn in that country.

Tito was great and he made Jugoslavia great!

[anarhosocijalist]

Huh....
I heard just the opposite..
Tito was an ordinary comformist who take care just for his own ass, he was not a revolutionary leader. Yugoslavia was a centralized country, and interests of my people were not fulfilled in that kind of federation.
I am glad it broke up..

[anarhosocijalist]

You are absolutly true Anarchist (aldo there isnt absolute truth). But you got me wrong if you think that I was talking about some agressive nationalistic interest. I was refering to right of my people to self determination, free economy and liberation from cultural violence from the largest nation in former Yugoslavia (violence over language, forbidding of some sybols, etc.).

[Marxman]

I am from Slovenia, which was one of the republic of Yugoslavia. YU was led by TITO all along. If you observe and study the making of TITO's Yugoslavia, you shall see that it's a stalinist state and it was. Its creation had nothing to do with genuine socialism but with stalinism and TITO was the main stalinist. But TITO was not like the other stalinists. I mean, he had purges and all the bad things but he was the most kind of any stalinists. Reall, TITO was the kindest stalinists ever. But he was still a stalinist unfortunately. Do you know that he went among the workers almost every day and greeted them and every worker was rejoiced when they saw him. Everyone loved TITO if you look at thousands of pictures, which you can find on www.titoville.com. But he lied and lied to his people, for instance, he said that workers had self-management. BS, a total BS. They had no management, everything was being run by the bueracratic elite, just like in Russia. TITO always drove around with fancy cars and always had his elite with him. A typical stalinist, unfortunately. He gave morale to the people like no other. I even heard that he cried before he died and said he was sorry for having such bad politics. And did you know that he fought for the Bolsheviks in the Red Army? And in the WWI and in WWII? Many call him a hero but unfortunately, he was still a big old stalinist.

[Politrickian]

Bolsheviks????????

IIRC, he was leader of the Partisans, which was a resistance group which was fighting the german occupation. However, his orders came directly from Stalin.

I was't around when Tito was Dictator but my parents were, and they told me that it was the best time they ever had in their live, from an economic point of view.

I'm quite sad to hear that your happy that Yugoslavia broke up. Because the break up included a war in which my uncle was part of and he was schizophrenic, it got worse after the war and he commited suicide a few months ago. It also could've taken my father because he was a Soldier in the Yugoslavian Army, but he fled Yugoslavia in time.

[Marxman]

Look, the fall of Yugoslavia was predicted and it would happen sooner or later. The politics of Stalinism can't last forever, I can assure you. I'm sorry but it had to fail eventually and I am really sorry for the nations that suffered from the fall, like Croatia, Serbia, Monte Negro, Macedonia. I know, only Slovenia came out fine and well, but that was due to back-stabbing plands of our politicans. Our politicans kind of lit up the match. It was horrible in the fall, fascism started to form in every way. Like I said, fascism is Stalinism in crisis. The wars are still kind of present.

[Moskitto]

I read that he was at a union meeting when the Nazis raided the place and said "We're looking for Tito" and Tito stood up and said "He's not here" and because "Tito" was such a mysterious person the Nazis believed him.

[Turnoviseous]

IIRC, he was leader of the Partisans, which was a resistance group which was fighting the german occupation. However, his orders came directly from Stalin.

Actaually Marxman was refering to October revolution, I believe. Tito took part in it.

And even under nazi occupation he was the commander of his guerrila, Stalin had also some groupd, but Tito had his own and they also made a majority within the all guerilla forces.

I dont know much about tito, but the way he defied stalin deserves credit!

He defied Stalin because Yugoslav CP bureaucracy wanted independence, so they could exploit the working class without Russian interfernce. But Tito could maintain power only, because his bureaucracy had a lot of sympathizers because they took part in fighting nazis.

Same was happening in East block countries, but there home bureaucracy had not overwhelming support, because Red Army did most fighting. So USSR bureaucrats came to power.

Same as with Tito-Stalin happened at Sino-Soviet split. Chinese bureaucrats did not like it being controlled by Moscow bureaucracy.

Here also shows another contradiction. If USSR and China were really workers´ countries in interesting thing could happen. In USSR most people from European part did not want to go to work to Asian part of USSR and rather stayed on the European side. Because of that most of the resources in Asian was not exploited as they could have been. On the other side in China many people were unemployed and there was(is) way too much of population. Asian part of USSR would be the best solution for these Chinese.

But inctead of welcoming Chinese, Russian bureaucrats decided to kill all those who tried to come to Asian part of USSR. So much for collaboration of bureucracies....



(Edited by Turnoviseous at 11:59 pm on Sep. 3, 2002)

[Chasovoy]

Yes, Tito's liberal reforms allowed yugoslavians a better life, however his policies supported nationalist tendencies among countries and later lead to wars.

[RGacky3]

Has any one heard of the commie Industrial band, Laibach? They are form Yugoslavia and they love Tito, infact I think they may have worked for the Yugoslavian government for propeganda, but thats just a suspicion.

[Chasovoy]

Laibach was a Slovenian band, not Yugoslavian.

[RGacky3]

Quote: from Chasovoy on 3:43 pm on Sep. 16, 2002
Laibach was a Slovenian band, not Yugoslavian.

WOW you know laibach, you are one of the first, comrade.

[jon doe]

G'day

TITO might not have been perfect but he was a lot better than anything else around. Yugoslavia was not the beurocracy you all seem to assume it was, compared to all the other 'socialist states' yugoslavia was the least centrealised. TITO's main failing was his own brilliance, when he died he left a huge hole to fill that nobody could fit.

anyone who could keep a country like yugoslavia (2 alphabets i dont know how may languages (there are a few small ones other than the main ones) and god knows how many differnent ethnic groups) together must have been doing something right.

cuba and yugoslavia (under TITO) are the only examples of anything at least close to being 'socialist' (yes i know both had/have flaws but so does everyone and everything)

it would have been interesting if TITO had lived a decade and a bit longer to see how yugoslavia would have coped with the collapse of the USSR

thanks


p.s does anyone know who won the recent macadonean election, i heard tell that neo-communists were in with a good chance but haven't heard anything since.

[Chasovoy]

Quote: from jon doe on 8:05 am on Sep. 19, 2002

Yugoslavia was not the beurocracy you all seem to assume it was

I don't think that, Jon Doe.
My mother and grandmother lived in the days of Tito, so I know how it was like better than you, comrade! (no offense meant)

[Politrickian]

From what I have heard, during the 10 last years of his life he was very ill and didn't know what was happening to Yugoslavia, because he was being lied to by the party's elite. During this time the elite got their hands on the good positions in the factories.

My mother told me about her time as a worker. She worked at the same factory for 12 years. Never got a house from the government and lived in the house owned by her mother. This was after Tito, btw. But there were people who worked there for about 5 years and got 3 diffrent houses during that time, which, of course, had higher positions in the factories.

So we shouldn't blame this all to Tito. It was the also fault of the oppertunists who used the party to climb up into higher positions. The same reason my grandfather gave up his membership of the party.