Thread: Canadian Left are new comrades of Taliban

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  1. #41
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    As a First-World reformist, I have no problem with Trudeau's "reformism."
    Formerly known as Thursday Night

    <span style=\'color:red\'>&quot;Canada must be unified and one, it must be progressive. Canada must be a just society.&quot;
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  2. #42
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    Originally posted by Tommie@Sep 15 2006, 07:38 PM
    As a First-World reformist, I have no problem with Trudeau&#39;s "reformism."
    What are you doing here then? Shouldn&#39;t you be at a Liberal BBQ or something? I bet Gerrard Kennedy could be your new hero&#33;

    Your the next generation of our oppressors&#33; Congratulations&#33;
  3. #43
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    Gerard kicked me off his campaign.
    Formerly known as Thursday Night

    <span style=\'color:red\'>&quot;Canada must be unified and one, it must be progressive. Canada must be a just society.&quot;
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  4. #44
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    The Taliban must be stopped. Afhganistan can not afford to be ignored by the world and left suffering through years of civil war yet again. We have already made the mistake once, and out of the mist of all the suffering and chaos of war came the Taliban. Sure they might of ended the civil war and restored law and order, but this time they want to arouse another civil war and reclaim their power from a people who just want the opportunity to rule themselves.

    Afghanistan has been handled poorly by both the Soviets and the U.S before, lets not let the same thing happen again.
  5. #45
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    As a First-World reformist, I have no problem with Trudeau&#39;s "reformism."
    reformism is dead. International Capital flight would punish the market of any government willing to flirt with reformism.
  6. #46
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    Anybody not affiliated with a socialist or a feminist organisation should be excluded from the political process everywhere in the Middle East. If you are pro-American, pro-Islamist, or pro-Zionist your opinions are fucking worthless and do not deserve to be heard by anyone.
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    Pro-Islamist? CheungMo, how do you think that you are going to organize anything at all in the Middle East then?

    What about the Islamic liberationists with Marxian economic theory?

    Besides, your opinion is basically a socialist version of the "white man&#39;s burden". Who are you to tell a nation what kind of liberation they need? Let them determine that themselves.
  8. #48
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    Originally posted by Comrade Marcel@Sep 17 2006, 09:56 PM
    Pro-Islamist? CheungMo, how do you think that you are going to organize anything at all in the Middle East then?

    What about the Islamic liberationists with Marxian economic theory?

    Besides, your opinion is basically a socialist version of the "white man&#39;s burden". Who are you to tell a nation what kind of liberation they need? Let them determine that themselves.
    Islamic Liberations?

    You mean like those bastards in Iran who crushed the secular left as soon as they came to power?

    No thank you.
  9. #49
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    Originally posted by Cheung Mo@Sep 18 2006, 02:42 AM
    Anybody not affiliated with a socialist or a feminist organisation should be excluded from the political process everywhere in the Middle East. If you are pro-American, pro-Islamist, or pro-Zionist your opinions are fucking worthless and do not deserve to be heard by anyone.
    what about islamic feminist organisations?
    this post was produced on stolen land.

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  10. #50
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    this is not right
    the last thing we want is for any part of the leftist movement to be related to said radicals

    i hate to say this but it&#39;s true....
    they blow themselves up, we come here and other places to organize

    by the way are you sure they are not trying to bring the movement to the middle east
    because that&#39;s also a bad idea

    <span style=\'color:red\'>I am not a liberator. Liberators do not exist. The people liberate themselves. </span>- Ernesto &quot;Che&quot; Guevara

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  11. #51
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    Originally posted by Cheung Mo+Sep 20 2006, 01:58 PM--> (Cheung Mo @ Sep 20 2006, 01:58 PM)
    Comrade Marcel
    @Sep 17 2006, 09:56 PM
    Pro-Islamist? CheungMo, how do you think that you are going to organize anything at all in the Middle East then?

    What about the Islamic liberationists with Marxian economic theory?

    Besides, your opinion is basically a socialist version of the "white man&#39;s burden". Who are you to tell a nation what kind of liberation they need? Let them determine that themselves.
    Islamic Liberations?

    You mean like those bastards in Iran who crushed the secular left as soon as they came to power?

    No thank you. [/b]
    No, I mean like Malcolm X.

    Those who follow Islam but are economically Marxist for example. That would be ideal.

    But even if they are reactionary Marxists should support them, so long as they are anti-imperialist.

    What are you suggesting otherwise? That occupation and imperialist domination is better because we in the west might not like their religion and/or ideology, it&#39;s ok for imperialist countries to control them?

    I would think it would be better for our comrades to atleast be able to face their own oppressors.
  12. #52
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    Originally posted by &#045;=Viva La Revolution&#33;=&#045;@Sep 20 2006, 09:22 PM
    this is not right
    the last thing we want is for any part of the leftist movement to be related to said radicals

    i hate to say this but it&#39;s true....
    they blow themselves up, we come here and other places to organize

    by the way are you sure they are not trying to bring the movement to the middle east
    because that&#39;s also a bad idea
    I don&#39;t really follow you here, but are you saying that just because someone chooses suicide bombing as a means of resistance we shouldn&#39;t support their national self-determination? That&#39;s seems rather like bourgeois morals and some sort of cheap justification for imperialism.
  13. #53
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    Originally posted by &#045;=Viva La Revolution&#33;=&#045;@Sep 20 2006, 09:22 PM
    this is not right
    the last thing we want is for any part of the leftist movement to be related to said radicals

    i hate to say this but it&#39;s true....
    they blow themselves up, we come here and other places to organize

    by the way are you sure they are not trying to bring the movement to the middle east
    because that&#39;s also a bad idea
    Who are you to say what "we" want, and to speak for "the leftist movement"? Are you part of "us" or "the leftist movement"? What have you done for it?
    What's the matter Lagerboy, afraid you might taste something?
  14. #54
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    Originally posted by Cheung Mo@Sep 17 2006, 10:42 AM
    Anybody not affiliated with a socialist or a feminist organisation should be excluded from the political process everywhere in the Middle East.
    Since those organizations are not large, 90% or more of the population "should be excluded from the political process".

    So who is going to disenfranchise and silence all those millions? Who has the power? Nobody, not even U.S. imperialism in the long run.

    Your approach was tried by the People&#39;s Democratic Party of Afghanistan, and failed miserably. They tried to carry out some radical anti-feudal reforms - without having a mass base, without consulting the masses and winning them over. The result was pushing most of the population into the arms of ultraright fanatics.

    Liberation can only be the work of millions of people. Communist proposals can only be carried out by those millions you want "excluded from the political process." So most of them are wrong today - they&#39;ll learn, mostly from experience.

    Why do you call yourself a "Left Civil Libertarian", Cheung Mo, when all you do is advocate mass executions - it seems to be your answer to most things - or in this case, the political silencing of millions.

    Fortunately, those are totally unrealistic proposals - you have no force to carry out this totalitarian repression.

    So why do you keep making them? Are you just trolling, or can you explain yourself?
  15. #55
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    Originally posted by "Marcel"
    But even if they are reactionary Marxists should support them, so long as they are anti-imperialist.
    Wow, that sums up all Maoist idiocy about "national self-determination" and suppossed good "nationalism of the oppressed" and your simplified anti-imperialism quiet nicely. What a load of bullshit. So we should support a group that we can be 100% sure of that they are folllowers of one of a the most anti-emancipatory, most reactionary, most anti-communist and most oppressive ideologies on the planet, just in the name of "anti-imperialism" and for the sake of fucking "national self-determination". I think you Maoist fanatics really should learn to see where your priorities are, it seems it&#39;s purely about "national self-determination", no matter what the actual consequences for the people and for the working class is. National liberate my ass, buddy&#33;

    On the other side, I&#39;m quiet surpised about the illusions of some Canadian comrades here about the nature of the Canadian "peacekeeping campaign" in Afganishan, and about the plain Canadian nationalism which is openly advocated here by supposed communists. That&#39;s just bullshit as well, you really should be ashamed about yourselfs. To speak with Rosa Luxemburg: "the enemy is within your own country"&#33; Instead of feelling yourself comfortable within your simplistic anti-Americanism, you should clean in front of your own house door, and realize that Canada is just another imperialist nation. I know it is a bit ambivalent, but there can&#39;t be any "good imperialism" as it is advocated by some Canadians here, just like there can&#39;t be any "good nationalism" as advocated by the Maoist lunatics.
    "The proletariat, when it seizes power [...] should and must at once undertake socialist measures in the most energetic, unyielding and unhesitant fashion, in other words, exercise a dictatorship, but a dictatorship of the CLASS, not of a party or of a clique -- dictatorship of the class, that means in the broadest possible form on the basis of the most active, unlimited participation of the mass of the people, of unlimited democracy." - Rosa Luxemburg

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  16. #56
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    Malte: What position are you going to take then? Let me guess, none? And so here is where you "purist" types try to whipe your hands clean of any responsibility to the proletarians of the third world. Have your moral high ground and, I&#39;ll support anti-imperialism.

    And don&#39;t say shit about this being a "Maoist" position, this was Lenin&#39;s and is generally the position of most Leninists, with the exception of neo-Trotskyites who really support social-democracy anyways&#33; What does that tell you? Even the Sparticist/IBT types would support the Taliban over U&#036;/Kanadian imperialism, so don&#39;t call this a Maoist position, it&#39;s a LENINIST position.

    As for your 2nd set of commments, I agree with you 100% obviously.
  17. #57
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    Originally posted by Severian+Sep 6 2006, 05:00 AM--> (Severian @ Sep 6 2006, 05:00 AM)
    Rakshas
    @Sep 4 2006, 10:40 PM
    The Canadian Left think that negotiation and accommodation with the Taliban is far preferable to warfare:

    This is the wrong mission for Canada
    Which hardly makes them "comrades" of the Taliban. That&#39;s typically the cheap demagogy of the bourgeois right against bourgeois liberals and social democrats: If you&#39;re not for the war, you must be for whoever we&#39;re fighting against.

    You could more accurately say they are "comrades" of those currently in office in Ottawa. They support Canada&#39;s deployment continuing in Afghanistan for at least some time longer - calling for negotiations.

    Rather than "troops out now", which is of course the only principled communist position. [/b]
    Severian - You continue to make excellent posts&#33; Keep it up, comrade&#33; :hammer:
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    Your approach was tried by the People&#39;s Democratic Party of Afghanistan, and failed miserably. They tried to carry out some radical anti-feudal reforms - without having a mass base, without consulting the masses and winning them over. The result was pushing most of the population into the arms of ultraright fanatics.
    Um.. so you&#39;re saying that the Saur Revolution didn&#39;t have widespread support, and that workers didn&#39;t gain under it?
    "Getting a job, finding a mate, having a place to live, finding a creative outlet. Life is a war of attrition. You have to stay active on all fronts. It's one thing after another. I've tried to control a chaotic universe. And it's a losing battle. But I can't let go. I've tried, but I can't." - Harvey Pekar


  19. #59
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    Originally posted by Comrade Marcel@Sep 6 2006, 06:23 AM
    Fuck the Kanadian soldiers, I hope the Taliban kills as many oKKKupants as possible.

    Comrade Marcel - You scare me. h34r: h34r: h34r:
    &quot;Government is an association of men who do violence to the rest of us.&quot; Leo Tolstoy

    &quot;In existing States a fresh law is looked upon as a remedy for evil. Instead of themselves altering what is bad, people begin by demanding a law to alter it.&quot; Peter Kropotkin
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    What we really need here is to show the people of Canada and America that the Left REALLY supports the troops&#33; Why? Because we want them to come HOME, away from the violence, away from getting KILLED&#33;

    The real Left wants to SAVE lives and END war&#33;&#33;

    That&#39;s the real patriotic message&#33; Let&#39;s not hand over patriotism to the right, let&#39;s tell the people our side of the story and give them the true patriotism of Bring the Troops Home Now&#33; And give them healthcare, raise the minimum wage, educatoin for so on. In other words, spend the money building the country and not going to war.

    Comrade Marcel - How do you hope to win over American and Canadian workers with that kind of attitude?

    This is why Maoism-Stalinism does not work&#33;
    &quot;Government is an association of men who do violence to the rest of us.&quot; Leo Tolstoy

    &quot;In existing States a fresh law is looked upon as a remedy for evil. Instead of themselves altering what is bad, people begin by demanding a law to alter it.&quot; Peter Kropotkin

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