this was a cold war tactic to prevent a soviet surrender.
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in august 1945, America dropped A-Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Do you think that it was morally justified? Was it the right thing to do? Do you even think that it was needed?
(i'll make a big post latter...)
Captain Blackadder: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war two great super-armies developed. Us, the Russians and the French on one side, Germany and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea being that each army would act as the other's deterrent. That way, there could never be a war.
Private Baldrick: Except, this is sort of a war, isn't it?
Captain Blackadder: That's right. There was one tiny flaw in the plan.
Lieutenant George: O, what was that?
Captain Blackadder: It was bollocks.
this was a cold war tactic to prevent a soviet surrender.
I don't know...well dropping the bombs killed thousands of thousands of innocent people, but saved thousands of soldiers.
Dropping the bomb also stopped the Soviet invasion from the north...if they did attack from the north and US attacking upward from the pacific...that would have been just like Korea.
However, I don't think killing so many people was necessary. Hiroshima the city is like...its shape is caved in...so the impact and the radiation would be trapped between the moutains...and stay in the city (if you get what I mean, I'm very bad at explaining).
It's a hard topic...good for debate. But overall I don't think it was morally justified. Killing innocent people is never justified.
It didn't save soldiers. The Japanese were about to surrender. In fact, Truman was the ONLY person in his cabinet who wanted the bomb dropped! It was horrible! You think Osoma is bad for killing 4,000 people? That bomb resulted in the deaths of 300,000 people from the initial blast and spreaded radiation! Many of those peopel were women and children! There is NO justification for that!
<span style=\'font-family:Arial\'>11:18 am, Greenwich Mean Time, December 21, 2012 AD.
"If you're talking about Xvall, I think it is some date when the world is supposed to get sucked into some blackhole or some crazy shit like that." - Fist of Blood
"Einstein was a sick pervert, E=mC2 MY ARSE! pROVE IT U RED SWINE" - Bugalu Shrimp</span>
Can I read where it says the Japan was postive they were going to surrender?
The Japanese wanted death before dishonor right? So why would they ever want to surrender the emperor?
Just wondering...it was not justified...
After the war US papers started to claim that the A-Bomb saved 500,000 American lives by avoiding an invasion.
Although more accurate numbers were originally put at 46,000.
The A-bombs killed about 150,000 instantly, and about the same number afterwards, through radiation etc.
But what were the targets? Two Civillian populated areas. No Military targets.
By the summer of 1945 the japanese were ready to surrender. Their military was overwhelmed, and their own country was short of oil, raw materials, food and munitions.
US diplomats reported that the japs would surrender - with only one wish, the preservation of their emperor's authority in some manner or form.
This was wanted by the Allies, because the emperor would be the only one who would be able to get the jap army to surrender.
So lets recap -
Japan was dangerously close to running out of all sorts of valuble provisions. So was willing to surrender, on one simple wish.
This combined with the USSR joining the war must have spelt instant victory for the allies, surely.
Going back to the bomb "saving lives"
The earlist an invasion could have taken place was the early summer of 1946 - japan couldn't have held out this much longer.
So i conclude that the americans knew that the japs would surrender, and as nateddi pointed out; this was a show of power, for the USSR. Nothing more.
Thus it was an immoral choice.
Captain Blackadder: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war two great super-armies developed. Us, the Russians and the French on one side, Germany and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea being that each army would act as the other's deterrent. That way, there could never be a war.
Private Baldrick: Except, this is sort of a war, isn't it?
Captain Blackadder: That's right. There was one tiny flaw in the plan.
Lieutenant George: O, what was that?
Captain Blackadder: It was bollocks.
Oh...Thanks, well then I can't see anyone who would think that the A-bomb was justified...damn just the things that we don't learn in highschool. That's why I'm reading Howard Zinn's The People's History of the United States.
"Funny how these crazy white men find the means to destroy mankind, and it's even funnier when they try to justify it. Typical though, for a country that celebrates Columbus day and still usues it's own system of measurement."
-Buddy
Ah, A new member! Welcome to the board buddy! And I find Columbus day funny as well. Celebrating slavers..
<span style=\'font-family:Arial\'>11:18 am, Greenwich Mean Time, December 21, 2012 AD.
"If you're talking about Xvall, I think it is some date when the world is supposed to get sucked into some blackhole or some crazy shit like that." - Fist of Blood
"Einstein was a sick pervert, E=mC2 MY ARSE! pROVE IT U RED SWINE" - Bugalu Shrimp</span>
Yeah, celebrating the killing, slavery, and slaughtering. This country was found on blood?
I would have to agree with the previous posts in saying that since we did not attack any important, military, or political buildings, we were immoral in dropping the bomb. "we" being the us government. it would have made a little more sense to drop it there, rather than over pure civilian poulation. either way im not a big fan of the bomb itself. its too much. but then again, who is a fan of war?
The Atomic Bomb was not justified. The US had pushed the Japanese back to Japon and had the island surrounded. The Japanese were dangerously low on oil and most other essential products. Bombing Japon did not save any lives. Japon would have surrendored with out an American invasion. Japon was under siege. It was only a matter of time before they callopased and surrendered.
The only point of the Atomic Bomb being dropped was to scare the Soviets. Is it a coincidence that the bomb was dropped at the exact same time the Soviets, the Brits and the Americans were debating the fate of post-war Europe? Stalin would not budge on his standpoint that Eastern Europe belonged to the USSR. The US wanted to scare the shit out of him. If the bombs really were dropped to save lives, why did the Americans drop the second bomb on Nagosaki without even giving the Japanese a chance to surrendor.
Also, Hiroshima was not totally a civillian target as Hiroshima had heavy industry, essential to Japons army (which was on the verge of collapse anywase). Nagasaki, on the other hand, had very little industry and was very much a civilian targer.
The Atomic Bomb was not the end of the second world war but was the begining of the cold war.
I don't know if they used it to neccessarily scare them. Soviets had nukes too, they were building and building. I think it was to end Japan as fast as they could. This is because before in the, i believe, the Yalta Conference Stalin agreed to help in the pacific theater by invading Japan.
Then the US makes the nuke and realizes why fight in between us and the Soviets in the middle of Japan when we can kill hundreds of thousands and end this.
They killed hundreds of thousands but not only ended World War II but started the Cold War.
Killing innocent people is NEVER EVER justified.
"We got two tribes
We got the bomb
We got the bomb-yeah"
Frankie Goes to hollywood!
Captain Blackadder: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war two great super-armies developed. Us, the Russians and the French on one side, Germany and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea being that each army would act as the other's deterrent. That way, there could never be a war.
Private Baldrick: Except, this is sort of a war, isn't it?
Captain Blackadder: That's right. There was one tiny flaw in the plan.
Lieutenant George: O, what was that?
Captain Blackadder: It was bollocks.
The bomb was used by the Americans as a warning that they were prepared to kill thousands of non-Americans to to save a handful of Americans. There is no way in which a weapon with the power to kill hundreds of thousands can ever be justified. Its not a weapon of war, its a weapon of fear.
And it seems to have worked with little condemnation of the attack. Japan is now one of the most capitalist asian countries.
from ComradeJunichi
I don't know if they used it to neccessarily scare them. Soviets had nukes too, they were building and building.
The Soviets never had any nukes until 1949. The bombing of Japan was a message to the world that the Yanks had learned how to split the atom, and had become the first superpower.
“There are no boundaries in this struggle to the death. We cannot be indifferent to what happens anywhere in the world, for a victory by any country over imperialism is our victory; just as any country's defeat is a defeat for all of us.” – Che Guevara
“We still believe that the struggle of Ireland for freedom is a part of the world-wide upward movement of the toilers of the earth, and we still believe that the emancipation of the working class carries within it the end of all tyranny – national, political and social.” – James Connolly
More lyrics from that song....
"When two tribes go to war
A point is all you can score"
They were making a point to the USSR that they had the power, AND that they wouldn't hesitate to use it. Bastards really, wern't they?
Captain Blackadder: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war two great super-armies developed. Us, the Russians and the French on one side, Germany and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea being that each army would act as the other's deterrent. That way, there could never be a war.
Private Baldrick: Except, this is sort of a war, isn't it?
Captain Blackadder: That's right. There was one tiny flaw in the plan.
Lieutenant George: O, what was that?
Captain Blackadder: It was bollocks.
What? At the conference the US brings up the nuke, well they say they have a 'special weapon' or something like that. But Stalin acted like he didn't really care, because he was currently building them in Russia.
If I'm totally wrong, sorry.
I'm sorry, can you rephrase that. I didn't follow.
Captain Blackadder: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war two great super-armies developed. Us, the Russians and the French on one side, Germany and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea being that each army would act as the other's deterrent. That way, there could never be a war.
Private Baldrick: Except, this is sort of a war, isn't it?
Captain Blackadder: That's right. There was one tiny flaw in the plan.
Lieutenant George: O, what was that?
Captain Blackadder: It was bollocks.
On the atomic bomb-
What has become of war. US generals are no longer needed as intelligence is no longer needed in the armed forces. In the past, you actuallly had to THINK about strategy and such, now its just some guys pressing some buttons on a computer that can destroy thousands/millions of lives so easily. It simply makes war unfair and stupid. Although ancient warfare was barbaric, at least chiefs/generals had to use tactics and intelligence/strategy to get some where. Warfare is a farce. Even a hundred years ago, a proffesional army was far better than a conscription army just assembled. Now, both can be destroyed with ease.
And the US was wrong to drop the bomb, however the Japanese had no intentions of surrendering and would have tried not to even if it meant death. But at least we would have one fairly!!
