Greece, captured, captured its savage conqueror
and brought its culture to uncultured Italy.
Horace Epistulae 2.1.156-157
The difference is that America speaks of full spectral domination.
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Perhaps being the most dominant and feared empire of history, the roman empire didnt like to fail. Conquering any country it could see and killing people for sport, they lived a very unequal lifestyle.
But does this compare to todays global domination of telecommunications and internet where capital can be moved from one side of the world to another with a touch of a button?
Does this show that we've not evolved from this ancient brutal society but reccessed as the idea of global equality and an end to prejudices slips slowly from the earth's grip?
\"We have a right to fight back. We have a DUTY to fight back. Self-defense is not a violent act, liberation is not a crime. USA, your the crime!\" - Sherman Austin
Greece, captured, captured its savage conqueror
and brought its culture to uncultured Italy.
Horace Epistulae 2.1.156-157
The difference is that America speaks of full spectral domination.
Man's dearest possession is life, and since it is given to him to live but once.He must so live that dying he can say, all my life and all my strength have been given to the greatest cause in the world, the liberation of mankind
Ostrovski
Muriel Spark:
If I had my life to live over again I should form the habit of nightly composing myself to thoughts of death. I would practice, as it were, the remembrance of death. There is no other practice which so intensifies life. Death, when it approaches, ought not to take one by surprise. It should be part of the full expectancy of life. Without an ever-present sense of death life is insipid. You might as well live on the whites of eggs.
In Rome, if you were a slave, it was as clear as day.
Now, most people are slaves and they don't even know it.
That means Romans were more honest than Americans :biggrin:
\"There\'s a time and a place for polite consideration.
And it isn\'t here and it isn\'t now.\"-Banksy
Well with the idea of slavery, i think the main difference is, that in rome, if you were a slave, you were downtrodden everyday, you wore the marks to prove it, and you might even be a gladiator. Nowadays, people can choose to beleive that they are a slave or not, people sometimes worship their slave drivers and are proud of supporting the government, when they are the ones who are being slaughtered by it.
I think the choice of ignorance is what we need to aknowledge and then educate people against the neo-imperialist slavery if we are to win a revolution against it.
\"We have a right to fight back. We have a DUTY to fight back. Self-defense is not a violent act, liberation is not a crime. USA, your the crime!\" - Sherman Austin
I have read Julius Caesar’s book on the wars in Gaul, and it is interesting to draw a parallel between the then, early Roman Republic and the now American Republic....
Rome went forth and conquered the gauls without ever initiation of a single war. Yet, at the end of every winter season, Julius Caesar would cross North of the Rubicon again to rejoin his army.. and fight, yet again another tribe of Gauls or Celts or Germans in what is today France.
The book that I read, that was translated from Latin into English.. Portrayed the Romans as taking "Hostages" as payment for wrongdoing, or payment for protection...etc.. It never went into explaining what these "Hostages" exactly where.. However I would assume they meant "Slaves".
Rome would also provide a somewhat hazy form of protection that can only be linked to the sort of "Protection" one would get from the Mafia. (Extortion)... Quite a few battles that Caesar’s armies where involved in where due to some tribe of Gauls attacking another tribe under this so called "protection"... only after stepping in, the conquering Roman legions would require hostages from both tribes.
(Edited by RedCeltic at 10:09 pm on July 21, 2002)
In Solidarity,
RC
Here is an ineresting link concerning Holywood's portrayal of ancient Rome http://www.latrobe.edu.au/screeningthepast...0499/mwfr6b.htm
Man's dearest possession is life, and since it is given to him to live but once.He must so live that dying he can say, all my life and all my strength have been given to the greatest cause in the world, the liberation of mankind
Ostrovski
Muriel Spark:
If I had my life to live over again I should form the habit of nightly composing myself to thoughts of death. I would practice, as it were, the remembrance of death. There is no other practice which so intensifies life. Death, when it approaches, ought not to take one by surprise. It should be part of the full expectancy of life. Without an ever-present sense of death life is insipid. You might as well live on the whites of eggs.
Ah, Rome, the impetus of all things great in Europe.
\"Revolutions are dreamt up by intellectuals but their aims are so unrealistic they\'ll stoop to drastic measures. Following the revolution the worthy passions for rebirth are swallowed up by bureaucracy and mediocrity. Intellectuals dislike this so they
Well, it was coined as the "First Reich" for a reason, you know. It was a bloody elitist empire.
Scene 26: Romans and Their Complete Lack of Humor
The sketch:
NISUS: Next. Hhh, crucifixion?
ALFONSO: Yes.
NISUS: Good. Out of the door. Line on the left. One cross each. Jailer?
BRIAN: Excuse me. There's been some sort of mistake.
NISUS: Just a moment, would you? Jailer, how many have come through?
JAILER: What?
NISUS: Uh, how many have come through?
JAILER: What?
JAILER'S ASSISTANT: Uh, y-- y-- y-- y-- y-- you'll have to s-- speak-- s-- s-- s-- sp-- spe-- speak-- speak-- s-- spe-- s-- s-- p-- p-- peak-- speak up a bit, sir. He's-- he's d-- he's d-- he's d-- he's d--
NISUS: Ah.
JAILER'S ASSISTANT: Oh, he's-- he's--
whap
He's deaf as-- dea-- deaf as a p-- p-- post, sir.
NISUS: Uhh, how many have come through?!
JAILER: Hhhee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee.
NISUS: Oh, dear.
JAILER: Hee huh.
JAILER'S ASSISTANT: I make it ninety-fff--...
NISUS: Ah.
JAILER'S ASSISTANT: ...ninety-fff-- ninety-fffff-- ninety-six, sir.
NISUS: Oh. It's such a senseless waste of human life, isn't it?
JAILER'S ASSISTANT: N-- n-- n-- n-- n-- n-- n-- no, sir. N-- not-- not with these b-- bastards, sir. C-- cr-- rrrr-- c-- c-- crrr-- c-- c-- c-- crrrrucifixion's too good for 'em, sir.
NISUS: I don't think you can say it's too good for them. It's-- it's very nasty.
JAILER'S ASSISTANT: Well, it's not as n-- n-- n-- n-- n-- n-- n-- n-- no-- no-- no-- not as n-- nasty as something I just thought up, sir.
NISUS: No.
JAILER: Hm?
NISUS: Now, um, crucifixion.
BRIAN: Is there someone I can speak to?
NISUS: Well--
JAILER: I know where to get it, if you want it.
NISUS: What?
JAILER'S ASSISTANT: Uh, d-- don't-- don't worry about hi-- him, sir. He's de-- he's de--
whap
He's de-- de-- de-- he's deaf and m-- m-- m-- m-- m-- m-- m-- mad, sir.
NISUS: How did he get the job?
JAILER'S ASSISTANT: Bloody Pilate's pet, sir.
JAILER: Heh heh.
MR. CHEEKY: Get a move on, Big Nose! There's people waiting to be crucified out here. Ha ha ha ha ha ha hah.
BRIAN: Could I see a lawyer or someone?
NISUS: Um, do-- do you have a lawyer?
BRIAN: No, but I'm a Roman.
MR. CHEEKY: How about a re-trial? We've got plenty o' time.
PARVUS: Shut up, you!
MR. CHEEKY: Miserable, bloody Romans. No sense of humour.
whump
Oooh.
NISUS: I'm sorry. Bit of a hurry. Can you go straight out? Line on the left. One cross each. Now...
Man's dearest possession is life, and since it is given to him to live but once.He must so live that dying he can say, all my life and all my strength have been given to the greatest cause in the world, the liberation of mankind
Ostrovski
Muriel Spark:
If I had my life to live over again I should form the habit of nightly composing myself to thoughts of death. I would practice, as it were, the remembrance of death. There is no other practice which so intensifies life. Death, when it approaches, ought not to take one by surprise. It should be part of the full expectancy of life. Without an ever-present sense of death life is insipid. You might as well live on the whites of eggs.
Ah, the Roman Empire, so great yet so flawed.
Worse than capitalism? Yes and no. I have to agree with Red Anarchy that things were perhaps a little more...transparent? If you were lucky enough to be a citizen, you knew your place; a slave, you knew that too. No illusions that you didn't really serve a master, as we have now.
My main issue with the Roman Empire was its institutionalized religion. Their pagan pantheon was eventually replaced by Constantine's newfound faith in Christianity. As such, the entire history of the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire, which led to Eastern Europe/Russia) and that of the remnants of the Western Empire was one devoted to Christianity. And while the two sides bickered back and forth about the true seat of Christian authority, in the end Rome won and started the great religious/social experiment that produced such notable 'gifts' as the Crusades, the Inquisition, 'Witch' burnings, and of course, Oliver Cromwell, who in his self-righteous fury invaded Ireland and killed Catholics almost for sport in his fanatical Protestant attempt to fight the wickedness of Rome.
And this legacy of Church and State began way back in Rome. And it's a legacy that even today we are having a hard time getting rid of finally.
And while I can appreciate Rome's overall contribution to Western thinking, law, art, architecture, and more, I can't help but think their greater legacy was one of imperialism and conquest- something to be repeated again and again in the West as many nations attempted to reproduce Rome's power.
"If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of
Plenty of ancient empires were far worse than Rome as far as the separation of church and state is concerned. Rome left a lot of pagans alone, or at least before it adopted Christianity. And unlike ancient Egypt or almost-modern Japan, I don't think the rulers of Rome pretended to be G-ds.
You know what sucks even more than Rome? The Holy Roman Empire. They didn't even have orgies.
Lindsay
\"He\'s an idiot. But he\'s our idiot.\"
Actually Roman emperors had divine right...
The holy Roman Empire was interesting yet useless. It was so loosely united that it spent more time fighting rival factions within itself then fighitng the italians and helping the other "holy" roman empire. The one time the H. Roman Empire finally made progress was with the Holy order of the Teutonic knights which ended up a failure when Alexander Nevsky defeated them anyway.
Red anarchy points it out best that at least the romans were outright with their oppression. people now live under a system where we question the system and we are undoubtedly ruled by it, the romans gave thier people the courtesy to know their opinion meant nothing
Pacifism is for those who wish to delay true action --- from Big Com
and unlike the US, Rome actually had another super power or two checking its power at all times(at first the greeks and carthage), then the Parthians and Persians.
i agree with the idea of roman corruption. america unfortunitly is falling to the same corruption. i think that as a world comunity if we were to follow our hearts and throw off the governments and religions that bind us. there truley would be no corruption, as long as people teach their kids basic human morals that were forgotten a long time ago. i believe whichever form of leadership or group of peopl ethat can bring this about, couldn't be shameful
The roman empire was capitalism! thts why jesus was socialist! see all he wanted was the expulsion of the romans! that was his true objective! he though the people thatwe were all equal, that loving money is hating people etc... he was a true socialist! pity that later he was worshiped by all tyrans and capitalists!
Rome conquered and destroyed those nations which opposed it, notably Carthage. However once a nation was subjugated by Rome its people became full Roman citizens entitled to the same rights as ordinary Romans. The Romans brought civilization to much of Europe. Modern imperialists notably America and Britain did not give people in their conquered territories equal rights. They did not spread civilization. America's greatest contribution to world civilization is McDonalds. Rome brought architecture, plumbing, roads and theatre. The modern capitalists bring exploitation, hunger and death. Which is better? You decide.
BANDlong \"The love of money is the root of all evil\"
Romans brought war! see barbarians were not that barbaric has people said! Every culture that was diferent from rome was barbaric! and the romans brought very litle to some parts of europe like Iberia and England! they builded collonies, all they wanted was to make rome a better place, to fill rome and italy with exotic stuff, they even extinted some expecies of animals, and the roman citzines that lived outside italy could only be cotozens if they alist 20 years in the army, soo they werent that happy, if they didnt serv the army they couldnt be citizens, that was the roman way!
On the issue of the Roman army, you were required to serve in the legionnarie army. and it was a requirement to become a citizen. even Romans had to do this.
Mazdak: No if they wanted lands they had to serv the army, but they were alredy citizens the same doesnt apply to non-italians
