Thread: Sexism

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  1. #1
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    I'm a bit confused, yesterday I went to see some punk gigs at a local squat. In one of the side-rooms a bunch of people were laughing and joking and fighting a bit, after a while one of them got up, a girl then asked the guy if she could have his beer, in a laughing tone, the guy replied 'only for a kiss' suddenly that girl and 2 others jumped the guy, pushed him against the wall and started shouting at him.
    I first thought they were just messing about, but apparently they were quite angry because he made a 'sexist' remark.
    I tried to find out why they were so mad about one stupid remark, but they got pissed at me too, saying I'm a guy and I couldn't understand that. So I just let it be, because they were obviously too angry to reason with.
    So now I'm asking you guys: was that a sexist remark? and if it was, was it so bad to get all worked up over?
    I hope one of those girls is one revleft here, so she can explain it to me
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    Eh, i honestly have a hard time believing that you don't get why that bothered her...the idea of thinking that one could request any quid pro quo exchange of even the most mild, innocent 'sexual favor' of you for something you want is extremely demeaning and implies that you're being viewed an inferior...it also suggests a sort of entitlement on the part of the person making the joke that elevates him above the group or at least above the person he's making the joke to, and the similarity with calling someone a whore should be obvious.



    That said...i'm not sure if thats really "sexist" as much as its just demeaning.


    In terms of the reaction...eh...how drunk were they? It also depends i mean on what his relationship was to them (a friend, social acquaintance or stranger), and how attractive he was (its actually far more insulting if an ugly or overweight guy says it, sorry but true, because the exchange then is much more onesided, merely for the beer rather than the fun of it, and the suggestion that you would do anything with an ugly person is degrading) on the other hand if it was someone of very high status in the group that would also add additional distress. The worst would probably be if he was significantly older then, that would also justify a stronger reaction.

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    thanx, that made it much more clear, but yeah, it's hard to have that kind of a discussion when you're already slightly intoxicated.
    I saw no problem in the remark because with my (male) friends, we allways make that kind of remarks, stuff like: ok, but first you have to show us your nipples (wich is way more fun when a guy does it, because people don't get it)
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    it's not so much 'sexist' necessarily as just being plain chauvinistic. it also strikes me as paternalistic in that it represents a 'daddy-daughter' kind of attitude, where the dude is the fatherly figure bestowing gifts upon the innocent naive young girl who has nothing (being denied property rights) except her 'favours' (whether thats sexual or no)
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    it's not so much 'sexist' necessarily as just being plain chauvinistic. it also strikes me as paternalistic in that it represents a 'daddy-daughter' kind of attitude, where the dude is the fatherly figure bestowing gifts upon the innocent naive young girl who has nothing (being denied property rights) except her 'favours' (whether thats sexual or no)
    Or he just wanted a kiss.
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    Originally posted by Khayembii Communique@Aug 15 2006, 01:51 PM

    Or he just wanted a kiss.
    If he just wanted a kiss he would have tried to chat her up, seen if she seemed to be receptive by her body language and if so just kissed her provided they weren't like right in the center of a room with a bunch of people; it was asking for it in that way which was insulting. In fact, he probably didn't really want a kiss as much as he thought it was amusing to talk to her that way, which you can see how it owuld potentially piss someone off, its making fun of them.

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    If he just wanted a kiss he would have tried to chat her up, seen if she seemed to be receptive by her body language and if so just kissed her provided they weren't like right in the center of a room with a bunch of people; it was asking for it in that way which was insulting. In fact, he probably didn't really want a kiss as much as he thought it was amusing to talk to her that way, which you can see how it owuld potentially piss someone off, its making fun of them.
    I'm gonna have to say that without the context we can't really determine the nature of the statement.
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    Originally posted by TragicClown@Aug 15 2006, 02:00 PM
    If he just wanted a kiss he would have tried to chat her up, seen if she seemed to be receptive by her body language and if so just kissed her provided they weren't like right in the center of a room with a bunch of people; it was asking for it in that way which was insulting. In fact, he probably didn't really want a kiss as much as he thought it was amusing to talk to her that way, which you can see how it owuld potentially piss someone off, its making fun of them.
    And what's wrong about making fun of your peers?
    Shouldn't 'we as leftwingers' know that sexism is incredibly stupid and that every sexist joke is most likely a joke on itself, mocking sexism?
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    Yah but if they took it as a harmless joke (the way it would have probably been interpreted it if it was an attractive, flirtatious, reasonably close male friend of the same age) they wouldn't have responded the way they did so obviously if he meant it as a joke rather than as a way of making fun of someone, he severely overestimated the level of closeness and acceptability he had.

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    Originally posted by An archist@Aug 16 2006, 12:20 AM
    And what's wrong about making fun of your peers?
    Shouldn't 'we as leftwingers' know that sexism is incredibly stupid and that every sexist joke is most likely a joke on itself, mocking sexism?
    that doesn't sound to me like he knew it was a sexist joke. and also, sexism and racism are huge issues within the punk scene. just being 'anti-authoritarian' or 'anti-system' does not a leftist or pro-feminist make.
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  11. #11
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    Depends, I mean if he was explicitly joking and flirting I don't see why anyone would get incredibly worked up over it, do they not have a sense of humor? If he was however infact serious then he should have just gotten slapped, and thrown out of the room.
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  12. #12
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    Now more i think about, its not sexist, chauvinistic or anything.

    You can take her comment as being flirtateous.

    "can i have your beer"

    he comment back, "For a kiss".

    She tried to get over on him, and he is tryna get over on her.

    "where the dude is the fatherly figure bestowing gifts upon the innocent naive young girl who has nothing "

    WTF she's innocent now!?

    What guy you know goes up to random guys, asking can they buy them a beer or can they have some of theirs! Hardly any if none! Girls do it to guys, knowing full well what they are doing.
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    Originally posted by An archist@Aug 15 2006, 11:05 AM
    I'm a bit confused, yesterday I went to see some punk gigs at a local squat. In one of the side-rooms a bunch of people were laughing and joking and fighting a bit, after a while one of them got up, a girl then asked the guy if she could have his beer, in a laughing tone, the guy replied 'only for a kiss' suddenly that girl and 2 others jumped the guy, pushed him against the wall and started shouting at him.
    I first thought they were just messing about, but apparently they were quite angry because he made a 'sexist' remark.
    I tried to find out why they were so mad about one stupid remark, but they got pissed at me too, saying I'm a guy and I couldn't understand that. So I just let it be, because they were obviously too angry to reason with.
    So now I'm asking you guys: was that a sexist remark? and if it was, was it so bad to get all worked up over?
    I hope one of those girls is one revleft here, so she can explain it to me
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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by afrikaNOW@Aug 16 2006, 02:34 AM
    Now more i think about, its not sexist, chauvinistic or anything.

    You can take her comment as being flirtateous.

    "can i have your beer"

    he comment back, "For a kiss".

    She tried to get over on him, and he is tryna get over on her.

    "where the dude is the fatherly figure bestowing gifts upon the innocent naive young girl who has nothing "

    WTF she's innocent now!?

    What guy you know goes up to random guys, asking can they buy them a beer or can they have some of theirs! Hardly any if none! Girls do it to guys, knowing full well what they are doing.
    "What guy you know goes up to random guys, asking can they buy them a beer or can they have some of theirs! Hardly any if none! Girls do it to guys, knowing full well what they are doing."

    I got to agree with this point.
    Men dont do that cause the other man will say no.

    Im a female and I wouldnt do that.

    And I look damn good. I could get that beer and my phone bill payed. But I dont, cause thats whorey, and who am I to go asking to sip off peoples drinks.
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  15. #15
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    Originally posted by Raisa+Aug 16 2006, 01:17 PM--> (Raisa @ Aug 16 2006, 01:17 PM)
    afrikaNOW
    @Aug 16 2006, 02:34 AM
    Now more i think about, its not sexist, chauvinistic or anything.

    You can take her comment as being flirtateous.

    "can i have your beer"

    he comment back, "For a kiss".

    She tried to get over on him, and he is tryna get over on her.

    "where the dude is the fatherly figure bestowing gifts upon the innocent naive young girl who has nothing "

    WTF she's innocent now!?

    What guy you know goes up to random guys, asking can they buy them a beer or can they have some of theirs! Hardly any if none! Girls do it to guys, knowing full well what they are doing.
    "What guy you know goes up to random guys, asking can they buy them a beer or can they have some of theirs! Hardly any if none! Girls do it to guys, knowing full well what they are doing."

    I got to agree with this point.
    Men dont do that cause the other man will say no. [/b]
    First off, we dont know whether or not the people involved actually knew each other, it hasnt been explained, so the 'random' aspect is completely speculation and as such - not a valid basis for argument.

    Second, would you ask for a drink from someone you did know? That could easily be the case, particularly in the punk scene where people tend to know each other - because it is not a big subculture, but regardless - I share food and drink with people i know all the time, even people i do not know very well or have only just met, friends of my friends or whatever, male or female - because im not a selfish tosser, and ive never had someone say 'no' when i have asked for sum drink or whatever either, male or female, hang out with nicer people! :P
  16. #16
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    Originally posted by afrikaNOW@Aug 16 2006, 12:34 PM
    Now more i think about, its not sexist, chauvinistic or anything.

    You can take her comment as being flirtateous.

    "can i have your beer"

    he comment back, "For a kiss".

    She tried to get over on him, and he is tryna get over on her.

    "where the dude is the fatherly figure bestowing gifts upon the innocent naive young girl who has nothing "

    WTF she's innocent now!?

    What guy you know goes up to random guys, asking can they buy them a beer or can they have some of theirs! Hardly any if none! Girls do it to guys, knowing full well what they are doing.
    whether or not she's "innocent" (whatever you mean by that, i'm not sure whether you mean sexually or what) is not the issue. the issue is that the guy/father figure would treat her as though she's innocent and naive, and thus attempt to exploit her.
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  17. #17
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    Personally, as a boy, I wouldn't get angry if a girl( even an ugly one) asked me for a kiss in order to give me something.
    I wouldn't even get angry even if a gay man asked me for a kiss.... I would just deny politely.

    I do not know....... it seems that some people get angry very easily.
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  18. #18
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    Originally posted by Raisa@Aug 16 2006, 03:13 AM
    Hahahahaha!

    Punk Chicks Rock.
    Yeah, it was kinda funny to see, they were all seated on the floor and the next moment they had pushed the guy against the opposit wall :P

    they seemed to know each other a bit, since they had been laughing and joking for a while, so I first thought they just wanted a fun-fight.

    Anyway, we have a saying in Belgium: 'Als de drank in de man is, is de wijsheid in de kan'

    something like: 'When the booze is in the man, the wisdom is in the can'
  19. #19
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    Originally posted by rioters bloc@Aug 16 2006, 10:41 AM
    whether or not she's "innocent" (whatever you mean by that, i'm not sure whether you mean sexually or what) is not the issue. the issue is that the guy/father figure would treat her as though she's innocent and naive, and thus attempt to exploit her.
    So a simple joking/flirty request for a kiss has now become some sinister psychological exploitation plot? Sounds like an overreaction.
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  20. #20
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    I feel the same way.

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