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I am very much in favour, after the revolution of sending the particularly hard-headed members of the ruling classes and capitalist ideologues to re-education camps in order to "straighten them out" through labour and propaganda movies.
The labour will be difficult and they will be forced to work reasonably long days, they will be fed simple food and wil be shown propaganda movies after their day of labouring is over.
The technique of feeding people the same message repeatedly is quite effective in getting people to believe things, as I have found out by repeatedly browsing the MIM webpage.
I can't see how this is inhumane and we would be giving them a chance to redeem and rehabilitate themselves.
I don't know if this is a joke or not ...
If it is meant as one, it is not very good.
The problem with this sort of system is twofold.
Firstly, who decides who goes to the camps? Who administers them? Who decides what movies will be shown? What you get is a new state apparatus, with a new ruling class. Power corrupts, as history shows us.
Secondly, it sucks. As an idea it is crap. It does not mesh with reality. Sorry.
I wouldn't have though that would be a problem. First of all, marxism has pointed out to us who are the exploiters. The state apparatus of a proletarian democracy would be the most aware of who the parasites are.
People who have been known to be extremely right-wing.
The armed forces.
I'm sure some investigative commitee could be set up to determine the most effective movies.
Most certainly, a new ruling class. The proletariat! A state apparatus, yes- one subject to the mass democracy.
True, but we're not tallking about Napoleon being installed as emperor. We're talking about seasoned, competent revolutionaries being elected to positions of responsibility through democratic means.
Only this formula, "as history shows us" has brought power to the communist movement.
I agree with comrade apathy maybe. Why not execute them instead?
"Workers of the world, awaken! Break your chains, demand your rights! All the wealth you make is taken, by exploiting parasites. Shall you kneel in deep submission from your cradle to your grave? Is the height of your ambition to be a good and willing slave?"
- Joe Hill
Executing millions of people worldwide? Fuck that for a joke!
Not in the worst periods in the socialist countries did that happen.
Imprisoning and brainwashing millions of people worldwide? Exactly how is that more humane?
"Workers of the world, awaken! Break your chains, demand your rights! All the wealth you make is taken, by exploiting parasites. Shall you kneel in deep submission from your cradle to your grave? Is the height of your ambition to be a good and willing slave?"
- Joe Hill
Will there not be, by the time the revolution comes, a great uprising against capitalism and the state? Surely any who oppose this movement will do so either by violence (in which case they will be killed) or by arguments (in which case they will be ridiculed). We will not need these mass camps you propose.
Besides, are you not also attempting to reach a class less state less society?
History shows that states do not go away easily. Your new state, with its new ruling class will perpetuate it self.
Those in power will keep it, or there will simply be a cycle, as in the "democratic" countries today.
The mass of the people will not have power.
So over all I say,
Fuck the state. (In all its forms.) And fuck the ruling class (whichever class it is, if it is ruling, I'm against it).
I oppose this concentration camp that you propose. If the state has the right to send people to massive centers to be "reeducated" (which is merely a code word for tortured), what power don't they posses? Why not take away freedom of speech, or impose a state religion? It makes no sense to me. Power corrpts, but absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Discuss.
This won't even be an issue. Same with all other idiotic post-capitalism questions and arguments.
If the revolution comes, as in the real communist revolution with no political intention or theories behind it, only masses rising up to end oppression in every form, what use is it to theorize how we'll deal with opposition?
Whatever we'll face will most likely die.
Unity is the foundation of all things because of the Mathematical element throughout the Universe;
All numbers are evolved from the One and will always resolve themselves back into it.
Look at his image/avatar (North Korean) and his signatures.
It's probably not a joke.
Would you slaughter your mother if she became opposed to a "revolution", or would you just confine it to slaughtering other human beings?
If they had faith in me and my motives, they wouldn't need a union
Starbucks Chairman Howard Schultz
<_<
you're kidding right? That's complete crap. How can you justify it? How would ou like if they sent us to reducation camps here and now? These few 'hard-headed' people are entitled to their views it's called freedom of speech. If they can convince us that capitalism is better than that's great for them but most likely it'll be vica-versa.
"Love Other Human Beings like you would Yourself"
-- Ho Chi Minh
"We Don't Care who gets elected, because whoever it is will be Overthrown"
-- Subcomandante Marcos
Daily life will be all the re-education that they need.
I would certainly oppose any government apparatus throwing people in prison and basically torturing them. If the government is truly democratically controlled, then it is likely that the members who participate are going to have a variety of views, and so it would be very difficult to get the people to agree that a certain subset of the populace should be handled in this way.
This reminds me of George Orwell's 1984.
You can attempt to "re-educate" all you like, it is impossible to force people to truly believe anything. Battering them down in an authoritarian manner won't truly change anything... and it goes against any concept of liberty within society.
It seems to me that to effectively "re-educate," all we need to do is prove them wrong. An attempt at forcing them to change their opinion won't do jack. But when they see an effective communistic and therefore are blatantly wrong, theres a better likelihood that they will see the errors in what they believe. And if not, the vast majority of other people will, making their illogical notions not deserving of anyone's attention.
As long as they commit no actions in harm to the working class, fuck 'em.
When all the dirt the cappies and ruling class has been sweeping under the rugs sees light again, I think most of the people who thought they were right wing will be turned to what we already see. Then only the really fucked up people will still be reactionaries, and those most extreme of the bourgeoisie, who will most likely die in the revolution, so I don't see this as a pertinent or realistic issue.
i agree with the answers of the comrades to this strange idea.
i will add only a warning: as marxists we know that the state, even a healty workers' state, is a source of degeneration for the revolution. this means that from the outset we must reduce it as much as possibile (lenin called it a semi-state). the more people in prison and in education camps u have the more policemen and soldiers u have the longer is the process of fading away of the state
patiently explain (Lenin)
Well, I would like to kill as few people as possible. After the defeat of the counter-revolution there would most likely be a great many reactionaries left.
These people need to be re-educated as a captive audience so they have a chance of shifting their mentality.
Ha! In any war there are enemy survivors- I'm not into butchering them- I'd like to give them a chance.
Nowhere did I propose torture. As for freedom of speech, these people can say what they want- there is no way humane way to control speech and thought but we can attempt to alter their mentalities from having a parasitic nature to having a proletarian one.
A "state religion" in the way you term it hides a pluralistic mentality. There is no room for pluralism in proletarian democracy; just as their is no room for monarchy in a bourgeois capitalist democracy.
Man, I couldn't agree with you more but I'm not sure why you are bringing this up.
I'm taking the piss with the avatar, but what's wrong with the signatures?
They are absolutely entitled to their freedom of speech- I'm not proposing a medical procedure that will alter their brain.
A fledgling proletarian state will need all the tools it can get it's hands on to deal with reactionaries.
.
This may the case and if so, so be it- I'm just proposing an idea, this isn't some dictat that will be imposed by some "supreme leader"
Couldn't agree with you more, mate.
Have you ever heard the verbal diarorrhea that comes out of the mouth of Ann Coulter, Bill O' Reilly and Miranda Devine.
Don't you just want these guys to have a holiday in Cambodia?
If it would somehow benefit the revolution and the masses, then yes: I would kill my own mother. However, that is a very unlikely scenario.
"Workers of the world, awaken! Break your chains, demand your rights! All the wealth you make is taken, by exploiting parasites. Shall you kneel in deep submission from your cradle to your grave? Is the height of your ambition to be a good and willing slave?"
- Joe Hill
Wouldn't mind it. Their pretty hardline though, and are the ones I am referring too as being most likely killed in the Revolution. Can't you just see Bill O'Reilly trying to defend his mansion in South Florida in his underwear with an antique rifle? It's his followers I see as being converted before and during the revolution.
Sorry. I couldn't tell how you were going to "re-educate" people without harming them in some fashion. My mistake. I take it back.
In the revolutionary process, a majority of the people would have to be for revolt, or it would not suceed. By the time the revolution is over, a majority of the counter-revolutionaries would be ejected, makeing these camps you propose less than useless
Discuss.
I think "re-education" camps would be completely unessesary. The Capitalists in the event of a communist revolution would be powerless. No police, no military, no ecomonic power at their disposal. Should they gain enough people to try and overthrow the revolution their permanent elimination would happen rather swiftly. So I see no need for jails or camps of any kind. If they have any sense of self preservation they'll fall in line.
"When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick".-Mikhail Bakunin
