Well this guy is a Nazi scumbag.
Shooting him in the forhead would be the best response
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It was proposed to me today that races with different average abilities to succeed in society should be segregated because if once race has a greater ability to earn money and succeed in school, it will ultimately make the "lesser" race blame the "superior" race, leading to tension. He cited that African-Americans on the whole do worse in school and do worse in the economy. I am not one to believe in conspiracies, so I do not think that this difference is due to an effort on the part of the majority to keep the minority down, especially considering that few racists are left in today's society and the doors seem to be more open for ethnic minorities than they are for the majority. How would you suggest that I respond to this? He will not listen to an argument about communism, as his mind is set and closed on that subject.
Well this guy is a Nazi scumbag.
Shooting him in the forhead would be the best response
Yeah, look at how that turned out.
There already is tension, and it isn't because non-whites are dumber than whites. It's an institutional problem that gives white people privilege at the expence of non-whites. Non-whites resent that.
So you don't believe that white people made an effort to keep non-whites down ever?
Not true at all! Just because there are programs like afirmative action does not mean that non-whites have a better opportunity to succede than whites.
Tell your friend to stop being such a racist fuck!
This has nothing to do with communism or class. It's about race.
Holy shit there is so much racism in this post.
I just tried arguing that in a communist state, the differences between classes would disappear, so the tension would no longer exist, but he claims that the "superior" race would then be angry with the "lesser" race for not producing as much while taking the same as everyone else.
Violence only shows that you have failed to beat a person mentally.
He holds that non-whites are dumber, and points to average IQ charts. I've told him those don't mean everything, but he claims (and backs up with a page from wikipedia.org) that IQ and ability to generate income are directly related. Please explain the institutional problem a bit more if you don't mind, so I don't look like I'm pulling shit out of my ass if I try to argue it.
I didn't say that. I know it was done in the past, but over the past 30 years, that has dramatically turned around due to positive cultural thinking. I see very, very little racism today, although that could be due to the fact that I live and work in an area where there are many minorities. I can honestly say I have never seen discrimination against a non-white in real life.
I believe that they are given better opportunity. For example, I see on college applications that race is considered as a factor in almost all colleges, and I doubt they're giving preference to white people in this day.
He is NOT my friend. And simply saying that will only add fuel to his fire.
It's important that his friend be argued with logically. Calling him a racist or other names does little. His argument against communism stands even if racial differences do not exist. However, I think his views on race should be dealt with first. Black individuals do worse on IQ tests than whites. However, this does not mean they are genetically inferior. It is quite possible that environmental conditions make them perform at a lesser rate (lack of proper schooling, for instance) and there is plenty of counter argument on wikipedia concerning the subject. It is by no means a wide-spread scientific belief that racial differences exist. The whole concept of race is quite poorly justified. Still, I would suggest you research the matter yourself and post specific questions. It is an extremely complex topic, and, I will admit, I often found myself thinking racial differences might be genetic, though I eventually dropped this notion and never fully accepted it.
I hope I helped somewhat. I did do a fair bit of research on this for a project so if you have specific questions I may be able to assist you.
Well you're on the outside looking in. I'm black and American, I see racism today in a very different form. Economic disadvantage. A somewhat permanent condition that plagues a group of people still recovering from years of oppression. The funny thing is that, these groups aren't doing much recovering. Their neighborhoods will be forever destroyed by violence, drug and alcohol abuse, and a pathetic inner city education system where a majority of graduates end up working menial jobs earning below living wage while the "corporate pigs" sit back and reap the rewards. These workers will never be promoted. Instead of the company going out of their way to train and educate these workers, so that they can move up the ladder, earn more, and provide a better future for their offspring...they simply bring in a batch of fresh college students with no work experience whatsoever, and call it a day. So what happens to the offspring of these workers? Well they become the workers of tomorrow and the next day. You don't consider that "discrimination?" Some might argue that this issue is purely social and economic, you can't help but notice that many of these disadvantaged groups just happen to be minorities. What you experience is a life living among those of us who happened to break free. But for every 1 of us, there are hundreds who can't and will not be able to break free.
Race doesn't exist, there is no such thing as a superior race, a lesser race, or equal races.
His arguments are based on, well, absolutely nothing. So why bother debating the fuck up? just smack him.
"How you cling to your purity, young man! How afraid you are to soil your hands! All right, stay pure! What good will it do? Why did you join us? Purity is an idea for a yogi or a monk. You intellectuals and Bourgeois anarchists use it as a pretext for doing nothing. To do nothing, to remain motionless, arms at your sides, wearing kids gloves. Well, I have dirty hands. Right up to the elbows. I've plunged them in the filth and blood. But what do you hope? Do you think you'll govern innocently?"-Jean-Paul Sartre
I'd like to see that source. Perhaps the relation has to do with IQ's being lower in areas with little resources?
No it hasn't. We've shifted in to a de facto segregated society, where racism is more hidden. It is still there, however, and in fact more dangerous, as this sort of racism is much harder to combat.
Affirmative Action negatively affects something like less than 1% of white students, while positively affecting everyone else in to the double digits. And still, most white students have a ton of advantages.
'heavens above, how awful it is to live outside the law - one is always expecting what one rightly deserves.'
petronius, the satyricon
Or that the tests are devised towards those of the dominate cultur and language.
You can't learn to swim in a library.
Sorry for the delay. I used all of the arguments you guys presented (that weren't too similar to previous ones) and he responded to most of them.
He asks why then do whites living in poor conditions usually score higher on IQ tests than blacks do in those same poor conditions.
He says, "That is pure bullshit and nothing but an excuse."
He claims this is due to their own laziness and their inability to look at the long term, and that most blacks would rather rob or sell drugs for money, which is dangerous and not reliable, than work hard in their schools to ensure that in the future they will be successful.
He says it is their nature to be violent and that the drug abuse is, once again, due to their inability to look at long term effects.
He says that the minorities are only getting screwed over in this deal because they refuse to work hard to find their way out and would rather complain until someone gets them out.
He says that it is ridiculous to claim that there are no significant biological differences between races when different races have very observable differences in skin color and physical appearance.
He says the data came from the Unites States, where, in comparison to the rest of the world, few people are suffering from a lack of resources.
He says this only happens because when blacks come into white areas, they begin committing crimes, worsening the school systems, and generally making the area worse off for everyone until the whites just leave and go somewhere else.
He asks how this can be when for every one minority who is affected positively, exactly one white person is affected negatively.
He asks why, then, Asians who are "right off the boat" do better than blacks who have lived in the US for centuries.
The tests are written by whites for whites, perhaps unintentionally.
I don't think 500 years of history is pure bullshit.
Inner city schools are shit due to lack of community resources and job options are extremely sparse, with most workers from the inner city having to commute to the suburbs (if they can find a job: racism is prevalent). Under such circumstances social organization also breaks down (things like families, community groups, etc), making the above even more difficult. There is nothing inherent in a certain "race" here, these factors plague all impoverished communities with rural (white) areas being hit just as hard, with similar results.
Rubbish. Poverty (not race) generally breeds crime, often violent, as well as substance abuse.
More rubbish. Tell him to find the work of, say, William Julius Wilson in regards to the inner-city and employment. Its easy for someone from the outside to say "They just need to try harder," but that isn't a very good sociological perspective. People are ultimately subject to the environmental forces at work around them and poverty of the kind we're talking about can be crippling, even for the most motivated.
Are differing hair and eye colors signs of significant biological differences? Something like 6% of our genetic makeup is "unique." Hardly significant.
Few people? Has he ever been to a major US city, or a rural town?
This is just flat-out wrong.
That really isn't true, though. Strictly speaking for schools, most white people still end up at the uniersity of their choice, only 1% are truly affected by AA. Minority students, however, are encouraged to apply more and thus enroll at much higher percentages than they would without.
'heavens above, how awful it is to live outside the law - one is always expecting what one rightly deserves.'
petronius, the satyricon
That doesn't explain why Asians who have lived in the US for only a few years do better than blacks who have lived in the US for hundreds of years.
I agree with you, but he says it is just an excuse for not being biologically able to compete with whites.
I am poor, so I murder? I am poor, so I steal televisions? I am poor, so I rape? I am poor, so I commit arson? I am poor, so I beg for money so I can get drunk? I can understand stealing food and water and perhaps clothing, but why would poverty breed violent crime? Also, in one of our previous arguments, he said that the disposition to be violent is a racial trate which stems back to their recent lives in Africa, where only the most violent would be able to get enough resources to survive.
Considering the incredible size and complexity of our DNA, I would say 6% is very, very significant.
I would somewhat doubt it.
Can you please cite where you're getting all of this from? And that doesn't rule out cultural factors that some Asian cultures may have in common with anglos.
Then he is an idiot.
Lack of access to resorts leads to disillusionment, resentment and other "antisocial" behaviors which can lead to crime. The criminalization of all inner-city individuals also probably doesn't help.
http://faculty.ncwc.edu/TOConnor/301/301lect07.htm
That article touches on some of it, from what I skimmed.
More nonsense. Africans were not living in some sort of violent "cave-man" world. They had advanced cultures and tribal institutions, many of which were based around sharing (ie, not "the most violent wins").
94% > 6% and is therefore more significant from a quantitative viewpoint. From a qualitative, well, there is no objective measure.
Then he probably shouldn't be spouting off about it.
'heavens above, how awful it is to live outside the law - one is always expecting what one rightly deserves.'
petronius, the satyricon
