Could "faggot" Be Taken Back?

[Entrails Konfetti]

Faggot developed from burning bundles of timber, which used by religious reactionaries to condemn someone to hell. Since homosexually is considered to be a sin, a homosexual is/was a faggot and it is typically used disparagingly towards homosexuals.

definitions provided by The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Other important copyright information here.

Faggot:

Noun & Verb
Variant of fagot.
Noun
Offensive Slang Used as a disparaging term for a homosexual man.
Etymology
Perhaps from faggot, variant of fagot, bundle, lump, old woman.

so if its a variant of "fagot"...

Fagot:Noun
1. A bundle of twigs, sticks, or branches bound together. 2. A bundle of pieces of iron or steel to be welded or hammered into bars.

What also means a bundle, or pieces of iron bundled together? Hmmm?

Fasciouring the 19th century, the bundle of rods, in Latin called fasces and in Italian fascio, came to symbolize strength through unity, the point being that whilst each independent rod was fragile, as a bundle they were strong. By extension, the word fascio came in modern Italian political usage to mean group, union, band or league.

Fascio


Mussolini was leader of a group called Milan Fascio, which later developed into the Fascist Party.

The word 'Fascist' is used sometimes in an antagonistic manner to describe authoritarian reactionaries. But the word 'Faggot' is used by reactionaries deorogitively toward homosexuals, however the reactionary is better defined as a "faggot" than the homosexual because of their political ideology.

So when a reactionary calls someone a faggot, it could be better explained to them that they are the real "faggot".

I think this word has potential to be taken back!


Fascio and Faggot are synonyms
The symbol of Fascist Parties-- a faggot.

[Black Dagger]

What the fuck?

This thread is really misguided, and just plain ignorant of how homophobia functions, is perpetuated, and the role non-queers should play in 'directing' the struggle against homophobia, i.e. they are in no position to direct it all, and as for why, this thread is a prime example, because they dont really understand homophobia in the same way or how to deal with it.

however the reactionary is better defined as a "faggot" than the homosexual because of their political ideology.

Um, how about fucking HELL NO?

Faggot should not be used as insult to describe anyone, doing so only reinforces that being a 'faggot' is a negative thing, that people should be offended because 'faggots' are somehow 'bad'.

So when a reactionary calls someone a faggot, it could be better explained to them that they are the real "faggot".

No, because that would perpetuating homophobia

I think this word has potential to be taken back!

Well, this probably comes to a suprise to you,

but queer people are ALREADY taking the words faggot and fag back themselves, and we're doing it in a positive, empowering way!.

Please do not attempt to 'lead' queer liberation, your idea is incredibly offensive and misguided, though i doubt you realised.

Queers do not need non-queers to tell them how to reclaim anything.

Also, 'taking back' words or terms that are offensive or prejudiced or that have prejudiced histories is meant to be a positive thing.

When you reclaim a word you're changing it from something that is insulting to something that is positive, that stands for pride in who you are, it is meant to be a form of empowerment.

'Reclaiming' a word (like faggot) by using it to insult other people completely misses the point of reclaiming language and further, actually perpetuates the prejudice in language and in general that you are trying to address - it makes no logical sense. When people reclaim words it is defuse the negative connotations attached to language, calling fascists 'faggots' as a way of insulting them just reinforces their own homophobia and is itself a reflection of a homophobic attitude (and/or ignorance).

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by Black Dagger@Jul 25 2006, 07:08 AM
This thread is really misguided, and just plain ignorant of how homophobia functions, is perpetuated, and the role non-queers should play in 'directing' the struggle against homophobia, i.e. they are in no position to direct it all, and as for why, this thread is a prime example, because they dont really understand homophobia in the same way or how to deal with it.

I'm not directing anything, I was merely asking a question.
I thought all struggles were united through class-struggle anyways, seeing how class-struggle is the main antagonism where everything spread from.

Faggot should not be used as insult to describe anyone, doing so only reinforces that being a 'faggot' is a negative thing, that people should be offended because 'faggots' are somehow 'bad'.

Well 'Fascist' is bad thats why all reactionaries are called 'Fascists', but by a Fascist being a 'faggot' it can't be used deorogitively towards gays.

No, because that would perpetuating homophobia

But the homosexual connotations are gone.

but queer people are ALREADY taking the words faggot and fag back themselves, and we're doing it in a positive, empowering way!.

Yes, but when someone who is in an outside groups calls someone in the ingroup a faggot, the ingroup gets offended still. So it can't really be taken back to mean anything empowering. It's like calling me "white-trash". But because of the etymology of this word it can mean something it's synomous with. I shouldn't have really titled the thread " Could 'Faggot' be taken back" I should have asked if the meaning could be changed.

Please do not attempt to 'lead' queer liberation, your idea is incredibly offensive and misguided, though i doubt you realised.

I'm not leading anything.

Queers do not need non-queers to tell them how to reclaim anything.

So the job for non-queers is to not ask anything. I never knew we were all from different planets.

When people reclaim words it is defuse the negative connotations attached to language, calling fascists 'faggots' as a way of insulting them just reinforces their own homophobia and is itself a reflection of a homophobic attitude (and/or ignorance).

All they'll do about it is get their asses kicked and go crying back to underneath their rocks.

[ZeroPain]

I agree with el kablamo, its easier to just change the meaning and keep it.


Black Dagger you have said homophobia/homophobic fifty-nine times (On revleft) since yesterday (24th), please relax...

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by ZeroPain@Jul 25 2006, 11:21 AM
I agree with el kablamo, its easier to just change the meaning and keep it.


Black Dagger you have said homophobia/homophobic fifty-nine times (On revleft) since yesterday (24th), please relax...

I dont think Black will every calm down because he thinks anything thats questionable (in the area homosexuality) he regards as homophobic or sympathetic to homophobia. I dont get it either.

Anyway changing the meaning shouldn't be a bad idea. I also dont think its a bad idea to use on enemies in an argument (and I dont mean the debate type). Like if you know that the person you dislike greatly/hate is homophobic you could use it against them.

[Janus]

How would we "take it back"?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

The same way urban blacks have been trying to take back the word "nigger" - most of them simply use the word to refer to a black person of the same culture.

When a black hip-hop artist refers to his "niggers" he means his close friends and fellow gang members, or even urban people of a similar skin colour.

I don't see what's wrong with neutering contraversial words in such a manner at all.

By forcibly making such words acceptable and the norm, it takes the force out of the original, more offensive meaning.

[Janus]

The same way urban blacks have been trying to take back the word "nigger" - most of them simply use the word to refer to a black person of the same culture.

True. But it is still considered offensive if a non-black says it. The offensiveness of it still hasn't been reduced all that much.

So, the plan is to have homosexuals use the word amongst themselves?

[ZeroPain]

Well changeing the meaning of nigger has no logic behind it.

Fag however is another story.

[Mujer Libre]

Um, just by saying "we've changed the context, so now it doesn't have it's homophobic meaning" doesn't make it so! As Black Dagger has said, reclaiming words is about attaching a positive meaning to them, not a new negative one. That's just defeatist, surely!

And I love how people turn up just to whinge about BD's antipathy towards homophobia.

Seriously- I'd expect better from 'leftists.'

[Hampton]

When a black hip-hop artist refers to his "niggers" he means his close friends and fellow gang members, or even urban people of a similar skin colour.

That's "nigga" or "niggas" not "niggers".

Well changeing the meaning of nigger has no logic behind it.

How so?

[Janus]

That's "nigga" or "niggas" not "niggers".

Some consider it to be just a different pronunciation of it though.

Either way, I don't think that the word has been taken back in any way nor the racist connotations been wiped out.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by Mujer Libre@Jul 25 2006, 10:01 PM
And I love how people turn up just to whinge about BD's antipathy towards homophobia.

Yes how dare I open up a dictionary and discover fascio and faggot are synonomous. Maybe I should have waited for a gay person to crack open the dictionary and discover it. <_<

Seriously- I&#39;d expect better from &#39;leftists.&#39;

Yes he&#39;s a homosexual, what he says it what all homosexuals believe&#33;

[ZeroPain]

And I love how people turn up just to whinge about BD&#39;s antipathy towards homophobia. rolleyes.gif

I hate homophobia as well, but I’m not the resident crusader.

How so?

Nigger is the corruption of Negro, not a word that was once common in the English language.

[KC]

That&#39;s "nigga" or "niggas" not "niggers".

But to kill the negative meaning of the word, shouldn&#39;t it be acceptable for a white person to use the term in the same way?

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by ZeroPain@Jul 25 2006, 06:21 PM
I agree with el kablamo, its easier to just change the meaning and keep it.

Whether you, or EL KABLAMO or all the rest of you people decide collectively to "change the meaning" the fact will remain the same; that the word "faggot" is specifically used by the general population of the world to be a derogative term towards homosexuals.

Black Dagger you have said homophobia/homophobic fifty-nine times (On revleft) since yesterday (24th), please relax...

Firstly, there is a real problem on this board in regards to latent homophobia and this is once again an example of it. Not only have you patronised a queer activist who attempts to highlight the homophobia on the board you have attempted to "stifle" any protest towards it.

Please explain why he should "relax"?

This domineering attitude displayed by heterosexual men towards homosexuals is not simply pervasive in society but also in the left movement.

It is unfortunate that Black Daggers persistence against homophobia irritates you, but perhaps you should realise that it is this very persistence which challenges homophobia and ultimately destroys it.

Instead of patronising a queer activist and telling them to "relax" when they attack homophobia, you should realise the reality of the struggle gay people have against oppression in society and become apart of it.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by C_Rasmussen@Jul 25 2006, 08:37 PM
I dont think Black will every calm down because he thinks anything thats questionable (in the area homosexuality) he regards as homophobic or sympathetic to homophobia. I dont get it either.

You don&#39;t "get it" because you have absolutely no concept of what homophobia actually is&#33;

Perhaps try and learn from Black Dagger instead of attacking him for his challange against status quo opinions that cause oppression against gay people.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by EL KABLAMO@Jul 25 2006, 05:11 AM
The word &#39;Fascist&#39; is used sometimes in an antagonistic manner to describe authoritarian reactionaries. But the word &#39;Faggot&#39; is used by reactionaries deorogitively toward homosexuals, however the reactionary is better defined as a "faggot" than the homosexual because of their political ideology.

So when a reactionary calls someone a faggot, it could be better explained to them that they are the real "faggot".

I think this word has potential to be taken back&#33;

Well, as a gay man, I don&#39;t. The word "faggot", regardless of any semantic history, is popularly and quite clearly used by people in society to attack homosexuals.

It is a word connected to homophobia and when people hear it they automatically accept that it is a derogative term to describe homosexuals and this simply reinforces the status quo notion that we are "bad" etc.

Straight people going around calling people faggot does not "reclaim" the word, it simply perpetuates it.

I was merely asking a question.

And the answer is no, it should not be reclaimed, it should be eradicated from the English language.

Well &#39;Fascist&#39; is bad thats why all reactionaries are called &#39;Fascists&#39;, but by a Fascist being a &#39;faggot&#39; it can&#39;t be used deorogitively towards gays.

But it will always be derogative towards gay people because that&#39;s what the word means in society.

But the homosexual connotations are gone.

Oppression exists in a much more deep-rooted way than you are acknowledging. The connotations will not have gone until homophobia no longer exists.

I&#39;m not leading anything.

You are asserting and defending your position even when gay people tell you it shouldn&#39;t be reclaimed. You are projecting your heterosexual male dominance in onto gay activists by telling us what we should do.

You asked a question, whether the word "faggot" should be reclaimed, presumably by gay people because who else is going to "reclaim" it, and the answer was no.

So the job for non-queers is to not ask anything.

That&#39;s clearly not what was being said. What Black Dagger asserted, rightly, is that gay people do not need straight people to tell them how to fight their struggle.

It&#39;s fine for you to "ask anything", but you should be satisfied with the answer, not attempt to keep reasserting your point until we agree with you.

If gay people wanted to "reclaim" the word faggot, we would have done so already.

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by EL KABLAMO@Jul 25 2006, 04:11 AM
Faggot developed from burning bundles of timber, which used by religious reactionaries to condemn someone to hell. Since homosexually is considered to be a sin, a homosexual is/was a faggot and it is typically used disparagingly towards homosexuals.

Urban myth

[KC]

Firstly, there is a real problem on this board in regards to latent homophobia and this is once again an example of it. Not only have you patronised a queer activist who attempts to highlight the homophobia on the board you have attempted to "stifle" any protest towards it.

Please explain why he should "relax"?

This domineering attitude displayed by heterosexual men towards homosexuals is not simply pervasive in society but also in the left movement.

It is unfortunate that Black Daggers persistence against homophobia irritates you, but perhaps you should realise that it is this very persistence which challenges homophobia and ultimately destroys it.

Instead of patronising a queer activist and telling them to "relax" when they attack homophobia, you should realise the reality of the struggle gay people have against oppression in society and become apart of it.

Or maybe he just thought that Black Dagger was so focused on his campaign against homophobia that he was going overboard and crying out homophobia when in reality that wasn&#39;t the case. I don&#39;t see that as patronizing at all.