They are not sympathetic towards the Axis at all, they are just extremely critical of both sides, which is good.
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The "good" guys -- The American side -- included 2 fascist mass murderers (Stalin and Chiang Kai-shek), a Anglo-supremacist responsible for the overthrow of the only government that could have brought peace to the Middle East, a French madman responsible for the starvations of thousands of Vietnamese, a Canadian anti-Semite who admired Hitler during the early 1930s and who allowed no Jewish refugees into Canada to escape the Holocaust (Mackenzie King), and an American "socialist" who tolerated White supremacism in his Dixie stronghold and whose Drug Czar -- William Aslinger -- was the biggest White Supremacist in post-civil war American politics and who, along with Canadian pseudo-feminist and xenophobic fundie asshole Emily Murphy, was responsible for the racist prohibition of cannabis and other drugs (The fact that some of these drugs were later proven to be extremely dangerous is completely coincidental.). Combined, these worthless goons killed more people than Hitler, Mussolini, and Tojo. There were totalitarian fucks on both side of that war: It just so happened that "our" totalitarian fucks won it.
I used to hate CCF founder J.S. Woodsworth for opposing our involvement in the Second World War. Now I know exactly where he's coming from.
They are not sympathetic towards the Axis at all, they are just extremely critical of both sides, which is good.
...And don't forget Algeria.
There are no such things such as "good" and "evil", in war or outside war. Hitler (and the whole Axis) where not evil, they where psycothic, fanatical and racist.
And then, the WWII was a war fought between complete pragmatic and sometimes outright ruthless leaders, but many times their ruthless acts was "neccesary" for their respective nations (or peoples) very survival.
I don't think Stalin would pass the Order № 227 if he didn't belive it was necessary for the Soviet Unions survival.
"Workers of the world, awaken! Break your chains, demand your rights! All the wealth you make is taken, by exploiting parasites. Shall you kneel in deep submission from your cradle to your grave? Is the height of your ambition to be a good and willing slave?"
- Joe Hill
yeah, "our" totilitarian fucks "won" (though, we all know some people didn't get freedom until 1989!but I think that's probably a good thing because had the other totalitarian fucks won we'd be in a bit of a mess right now (more so than we were).
"Canadian anti-Semite who admired Hitler during the early 1930s and who allowed no Jewish refugees into Canada to escape the Holocaust (Mackenzie King),"
I agree with this, but remember - many Britains also supported Hitler in his early days. think BUF and daily mail.
"I used to hate CCF founder J.S. Woodsworth for opposing our involvement in the Second World War. Now I know exactly where he's coming from."
by "our" you mean US right?
You clearly have no idea as to the meaning of the term "fascist" <_<
March at the head of the ideas of your century and those ideas will follow and sustain you. March behind them and they will drag you along. March against them and they will overthrow you.
Napoleon III
They all deserve critisism , but the fact is that things would be alot worse if the Nazis won, to put it as simple as possible.
Work. Buy. Consume. Die
He is talking about Canada. J.S. Woodsworth was the CCF (Cooperative Commonwealth Federation), an old socialist party that became the modern day New Democratic Party in Canada. I don't know why he used such an obscure reference as I only know it because I studied Canadian History as an elective course in High School.
Chiang Kai Shek- Chinese Nationalist, opposed Chinese Communist Party, killed several hundreds of thousands of peasents (Red or otherwise).
Stalin- Under his reign, more people died than the reign of Hitler. His ideology is more closely related toFascism than actual communism.
Discuss.
The worst thing about fascism is that it was aristocratic. Atleast Stalin wasnt aristocratic.
Do you want to contribute something relevant to the discussion? Or have we suddenly started assigning political labels depending on death count? Neither Chiang Kai Shek nor Stalin can in any way be described as fascist. Unless you’re a fucking idiot of course.
March at the head of the ideas of your century and those ideas will follow and sustain you. March behind them and they will drag you along. March against them and they will overthrow you.
Napoleon III
You take the words from my fingers, comrade.
"Workers of the world, awaken! Break your chains, demand your rights! All the wealth you make is taken, by exploiting parasites. Shall you kneel in deep submission from your cradle to your grave? Is the height of your ambition to be a good and willing slave?"
- Joe Hill
I wouldn't think that suggesting that I am a "fucking idiot" is extreamly constructive, either, mate.
Stalin Support massive state collectivisation. making him appear socialistic, yet he believed in heavy laws on people morality. Hitler did the same thing. Yes, Hitler was worse, but Stalin wasn't much better.
http://www.moral-politics.com/xpolitics.as...ogies.Stalinism
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/ind...showtopic=3128
As for Chiang Kai Shek, he was a nationalist, which is close to fascism.
http://www.moral-politics.com/xpolitics.as...ies.Nationalism
Discuss.
Its a tuffy. I met and old spanish civil war vet who saw first had the horrors of Facism and the Trechery of Stalinism, so he was pretty non aligned as far as that goes, but he still chose to come out of exile and join the "free" french forces to continue the war against facism.
The Fact is, with possibly the exception of the Soviet Union, revolutionaries were far more abe to operate under the allied contries than the Axis, in Japan, Spain and Germany (Italy was a minor exception) the revolutionary left had to go completely underground, not even able to amintain regular contact. Whike in the US, Britan and China the left was still fairly active, although heavily repressed.
I would have to say that I would have gone over tio fight Hitler, if he had been sucessful in Europe Im sure the US and Britan would have followed not long after as there were grassroots far right movements and considerable ruling class support for facism in both of thoes contries, capitalism adapts well to unspeacable horrors, the holocost was buisness as usual for IBM and Ford.
NEFAC North Eastern Federation of Anarchist Communists.
http://anarchistblackcat.org/ Strongly moderated International Anarchist Communist discussion board.
Anarkismo.net International Anarchist Communist News and Views. Multilingual.
Libcom.org Class Struggle Resource.
Labourstart. Where labour unionists start their day.
So we've established that Stalin was moralistic and Chiang Kai Shek was a nationalist. Now how does that make one fascist?
March at the head of the ideas of your century and those ideas will follow and sustain you. March behind them and they will drag you along. March against them and they will overthrow you.
Napoleon III
Who the fuck said that?
Dude, I didn't say he was a fascist, only that his ideology is similar to fascism.
Discuss.
He was no more fascist than Reagan. But it begs the question... why mention him at all?
March at the head of the ideas of your century and those ideas will follow and sustain you. March behind them and they will drag you along. March against them and they will overthrow you.
Napoleon III
Because they were in fucking World War 2, dude. That's why he mentioned him.
Also, as for suggesting I'm a "fucking idiot", if you're going to resort to name calling, you most likely don't have a point. I see no reason not to just ignore you, but, hell, it'll be fun toying around with your argument (even though it's not the best one I've ever heard).
Discuss.
My "argument" consists of the fact that neither Stalin nor Chiang Kai Shek could be described as fascist by anyone with even the faintest grasp of either 1) fascist theory and characteristics or 2) history.
That's it. I suggest that you read up on your history before you start throwing the term "fascist", which after all does describe a particular set of beliefs, around without regard to historical fact. Perhaps Bush is also a fascist?
March at the head of the ideas of your century and those ideas will follow and sustain you. March behind them and they will drag you along. March against them and they will overthrow you.
Napoleon III
I'm not really sure who you are yelling at but lovely shade of red has only said they have similiar qualities to facist leaders. Is that such a crime?
Only as producer and creator of social wealth does he become aware of his strength; in solidaric union with his fellows he creates in the trade union the invincible phalanx which can withstand any assault, if it is aflame with the spirit of freedom and animated by the ideal of social justice.- Rudolf Rocker
Such as the fact that they were all human? Neither of the leaders he mentioned could, in any way, be described as fascist.
March at the head of the ideas of your century and those ideas will follow and sustain you. March behind them and they will drag you along. March against them and they will overthrow you.
Napoleon III
