Politcal Correctness

[internet andy]

I was wondering how people here feel about Politically Correctness.

I personal think its a bad thing, it hinders freedom of speech. I don't like having to watch what I say around certain people, I'm not a racist or sexist or anything like that. I don't like to be controlled though and if I break away I'm considered to be intolerant, maybe its cause I'm a white christian male... Also its funny to poke fun at people base on such things like what beign PC tries to stop. I never take jokes like that seriously, their just jokes and mean nothing. I feel joking like this keeps freedom of speech protected and such.

Also if you look at America and how much anti-PC speech it allows compared to Europe or China, you see there is considerly less racism, sexism, etc. in America compared to those other countries. Since Americans grew up around it, they tend to be disgusted by racists, sexists, etc. While Europeans tend to be slightly more iltorant then others, ex. Most Nazi parties in the world are located in Europe (Yes I know WWII and such, but if PC does work, wouldn't these be all gone?)

People force others to be PC all the time! The media all the time chooses its words carful, always usign terms that won't offend somebody. Or people will assume your insulting them if you use certain words.

I have a moral sense. I know whats right and wrong. Words are not bad, words cannot hurt anyone unless said with hate. I have respect and compassion for people, you seem to be saying I don't. And my need to challenge the status quo? Political Correctness is a joke and it is slowing down society by keeping to the idea that we are different passed on how we look like affermative action or "hate crime" (I'd say if you murder somebody in cold blood you hate them regardless of their skin). Neither of these is needed anymore, they just keep the idea that we are sperated alive.

Political Correctness is basicly discrimination against the majority I feel. I'm a white christian male, if a mexican was to call me a "honky". I couldn't insult him back with the word "beaner" or I'd be called a racist. Yet honky is just as much of an insult as beaner but nobody is called racist for saying that.

Its just like affermative action in the fact that both promotions a division among people base on their sex and creed. This is what MLK marched for this isn't what he died for.

So yah I would love to hear people's thoughts on being PC.

[internet andy]

I was wondering how people here feel about Politically Correctness.

I personal think its a bad thing, it hinders freedom of speech. I don't like having to watch what I say around certain people, I'm not a racist or sexist or anything like that. I don't like to be controlled though and if I break away I'm considered to be intolerant, maybe its cause I'm a white christian male... Also its funny to poke fun at people base on such things like what beign PC tries to stop. I never take jokes like that seriously, their just jokes and mean nothing. I feel joking like this keeps freedom of speech protected and such.

Also if you look at America and how much anti-PC speech it allows compared to Europe or China, you see there is considerly less racism, sexism, etc. in America compared to those other countries. Since Americans grew up around it, they tend to be disgusted by racists, sexists, etc. While Europeans tend to be slightly more iltorant then others, ex. Most Nazi parties in the world are located in Europe (Yes I know WWII and such, but if PC does work, wouldn't these be all gone?)

People force others to be PC all the time! The media all the time chooses its words carful, always usign terms that won't offend somebody. Or people will assume your insulting them if you use certain words.

I have a moral sense. I know whats right and wrong. Words are not bad, words cannot hurt anyone unless said with hate. I have respect and compassion for people, you seem to be saying I don't. And my need to challenge the status quo? Political Correctness is a joke and it is slowing down society by keeping to the idea that we are different passed on how we look like affermative action or "hate crime" (I'd say if you murder somebody in cold blood you hate them regardless of their skin). Neither of these is needed anymore, they just keep the idea that we are sperated alive.

Political Correctness is basicly discrimination against the majority I feel. I'm a white christian male, if a mexican was to call me a "honky". I couldn't insult him back with the word "beaner" or I'd be called a racist. Yet honky is just as much of an insult as beaner but nobody is called racist for saying that.

Its just like affermative action in the fact that both promotions a division among people base on their sex and creed. This is what MLK marched for this isn't what he died for.

So yah I would love to hear people's thoughts on being PC.

[internet andy]

I was wondering how people here feel about Politically Correctness.

I personal think its a bad thing, it hinders freedom of speech. I don't like having to watch what I say around certain people, I'm not a racist or sexist or anything like that. I don't like to be controlled though and if I break away I'm considered to be intolerant, maybe its cause I'm a white christian male... Also its funny to poke fun at people base on such things like what beign PC tries to stop. I never take jokes like that seriously, their just jokes and mean nothing. I feel joking like this keeps freedom of speech protected and such.

Also if you look at America and how much anti-PC speech it allows compared to Europe or China, you see there is considerly less racism, sexism, etc. in America compared to those other countries. Since Americans grew up around it, they tend to be disgusted by racists, sexists, etc. While Europeans tend to be slightly more iltorant then others, ex. Most Nazi parties in the world are located in Europe (Yes I know WWII and such, but if PC does work, wouldn't these be all gone?)

People force others to be PC all the time! The media all the time chooses its words carful, always usign terms that won't offend somebody. Or people will assume your insulting them if you use certain words.

I have a moral sense. I know whats right and wrong. Words are not bad, words cannot hurt anyone unless said with hate. I have respect and compassion for people, you seem to be saying I don't. And my need to challenge the status quo? Political Correctness is a joke and it is slowing down society by keeping to the idea that we are different passed on how we look like affermative action or "hate crime" (I'd say if you murder somebody in cold blood you hate them regardless of their skin). Neither of these is needed anymore, they just keep the idea that we are sperated alive.

Political Correctness is basicly discrimination against the majority I feel. I'm a white christian male, if a mexican was to call me a "honky". I couldn't insult him back with the word "beaner" or I'd be called a racist. Yet honky is just as much of an insult as beaner but nobody is called racist for saying that.

Its just like affermative action in the fact that both promotions a division among people base on their sex and creed. This is what MLK marched for this isn't what he died for.

So yah I would love to hear people's thoughts on being PC.

[bayano]

Originally posted by internet andy@Jun 23 2006, 04:34 AM
I don't like to be controlled though and if I break away I'm considered to be intolerant, maybe its cause I'm a white christian male...
Also if you look at America and how much anti-PC speech it allows compared to Europe or China, you see there is considerly less racism, sexism, etc. in America compared to those other countries. Since Americans grew up around it, they tend to be disgusted by racists, sexists, etc. While Europeans tend to be slightly more iltorant then others, ex. Most Nazi parties in the world are located in Europe (Yes I know WWII and such, but if PC does work, wouldn't these be all gone?)


Political Correctness is basicly discrimination against the majority I feel. I'm a white christian male, if a mexican was to call me a "honky". I couldn't insult him back with the word "beaner" or I'd be called a racist. Yet honky is just as much of an insult as beaner but nobody is called racist for saying that.

Its just like affermative action in the fact that both promotions a division among people base on their sex and creed. This is what MLK marched for this isn't what he died for.

ummm, firstly, youre wrong as to whether there is more racism here or in the european union or china. racism is different in both contexts, but one thing is for sure, it is absolutely not less here than there.

and political correctness isnt discrimination against the majority. capitalism and its integral elements of patriarchy and white supremacism are discrimination against the majority- women, people of color, other marginalized groups, workers and the poor. PC isnt the division- the division already exists at the roots of society and the system, PC is a struggle to liberate ourselves from some of the cultural manifestations of the systemic oppressions we are faced with

[bayano]

Originally posted by internet andy@Jun 23 2006, 04:34 AM
I don't like to be controlled though and if I break away I'm considered to be intolerant, maybe its cause I'm a white christian male...
Also if you look at America and how much anti-PC speech it allows compared to Europe or China, you see there is considerly less racism, sexism, etc. in America compared to those other countries. Since Americans grew up around it, they tend to be disgusted by racists, sexists, etc. While Europeans tend to be slightly more iltorant then others, ex. Most Nazi parties in the world are located in Europe (Yes I know WWII and such, but if PC does work, wouldn't these be all gone?)


Political Correctness is basicly discrimination against the majority I feel. I'm a white christian male, if a mexican was to call me a "honky". I couldn't insult him back with the word "beaner" or I'd be called a racist. Yet honky is just as much of an insult as beaner but nobody is called racist for saying that.

Its just like affermative action in the fact that both promotions a division among people base on their sex and creed. This is what MLK marched for this isn't what he died for.

ummm, firstly, youre wrong as to whether there is more racism here or in the european union or china. racism is different in both contexts, but one thing is for sure, it is absolutely not less here than there.

and political correctness isnt discrimination against the majority. capitalism and its integral elements of patriarchy and white supremacism are discrimination against the majority- women, people of color, other marginalized groups, workers and the poor. PC isnt the division- the division already exists at the roots of society and the system, PC is a struggle to liberate ourselves from some of the cultural manifestations of the systemic oppressions we are faced with

[bayano]

Originally posted by internet andy@Jun 23 2006, 04:34 AM
I don't like to be controlled though and if I break away I'm considered to be intolerant, maybe its cause I'm a white christian male...
Also if you look at America and how much anti-PC speech it allows compared to Europe or China, you see there is considerly less racism, sexism, etc. in America compared to those other countries. Since Americans grew up around it, they tend to be disgusted by racists, sexists, etc. While Europeans tend to be slightly more iltorant then others, ex. Most Nazi parties in the world are located in Europe (Yes I know WWII and such, but if PC does work, wouldn't these be all gone?)


Political Correctness is basicly discrimination against the majority I feel. I'm a white christian male, if a mexican was to call me a "honky". I couldn't insult him back with the word "beaner" or I'd be called a racist. Yet honky is just as much of an insult as beaner but nobody is called racist for saying that.

Its just like affermative action in the fact that both promotions a division among people base on their sex and creed. This is what MLK marched for this isn't what he died for.

ummm, firstly, youre wrong as to whether there is more racism here or in the european union or china. racism is different in both contexts, but one thing is for sure, it is absolutely not less here than there.

and political correctness isnt discrimination against the majority. capitalism and its integral elements of patriarchy and white supremacism are discrimination against the majority- women, people of color, other marginalized groups, workers and the poor. PC isnt the division- the division already exists at the roots of society and the system, PC is a struggle to liberate ourselves from some of the cultural manifestations of the systemic oppressions we are faced with

[YSR]

I'd say if you murder somebody in cold blood you hate them regardless of their skin

Then you'd be wrong.

[YSR]

I'd say if you murder somebody in cold blood you hate them regardless of their skin

Then you'd be wrong.

[YSR]

I'd say if you murder somebody in cold blood you hate them regardless of their skin

Then you'd be wrong.

[Craig]

Originally posted by internet andy@Jun 23 2006, 09:34 AM
I was wondering how people here feel about Politically Correctness.

I'm trying to be nice because you sound like a good guy who doesn't mean any harm. You have questions and are skeptical of what you percieve to be the status quo. Those are good things. There was a time in my life when I asked all those same questions.

I personal think its a bad thing, it hinders freedom of speech. I don't like having to watch what I say around certain people, I'm not a racist or sexist or anything like that.

So what you're saying is that you don't like to behave appropriately for a situation? You'd show up drinking a 40 at a job interview? You like to burp at the table during a formal dinner? Or is it that you just want to tell nigger jokes without having to look around to make sure one isn't nearby?

"Politically Correct" is not a term people usually apply to themselves. It's an insult. It's a shield that rude people hide behind when they want to excuse their own terrible behavior. It's not "politically correct" to avoid laughing at another human's suffering, it's just impolite. If you want to be obnoxious, that's your own decision. Exersize your "freedom of speech." No one is stopping you... But that doesn't mean we have to LIKE you. If you act like an asshole, people will treat you like an asshole.

I'm a white christian male... I never take jokes like that seriously, their just jokes and mean nothing.

Really? The white Christian male isn't bothered by all the white Christian male jokes out there?

Maybe you're not bothered because, as an admitted white Christian male, you've never faced the humiliation that discrimination causes. When I was a kid and I fell down, I'd go crying into the house. "My arm hurts," I'd tell my grandfather. "Funny, I don't feel a thing," was his response. The lesson? We often don't feel the suffering of others.

Also if you look at America and how much anti-PC speech it allows compared to Europe or China, you see there is considerly less racism, sexism, etc. in America compared to those other countries. Since Americans grew up around it, they tend to be disgusted by racists, sexists, etc. While Europeans tend to be slightly more iltorant then others, ex. Most Nazi parties in the world are located in Europe (Yes I know WWII and such, but if PC does work, wouldn't these be all gone?)

That's just not true. The United States had one of the worst forms of institutionalized racism in the world -- racial slavery -- and the effects are still felt today. As for sexism, I would point out that many European nations have already had female prime ministers and presidents, yet that is seen as a virtual impossibility here in the US.

Its just like affermative action in the fact that both promotions a division among people base on their sex and creed. This is what MLK marched for this isn't what he died for.

I don't think that a self-identified anti-affirmative-action white Christian male has the right to speak for Martin Luther King.

You assume, as a sheltered suburban whiteboy, that everyone is trully equal in the US. Therefore affirmative action isn't needed. And if everyone was trully equal then you'd be right.

Here are the facts. This country was built by exploitation of blacks and minorities. For over a century, blacks were considered property. They weren't even allowed to READ. Then, in 1864, they were declared "free." But they didn't have anything. No property, no money... Nothing. They were denied from living in most "white" communities. They weren't allowed into schools. They were denied good jobs. Laws were passed making it almost impossible for them to vote. They couldn't even drink out of the same drinking fountains! This continued up through the goddamn 1950s.

Education and wealth are accumulated through GENERATIONS. We all stand on the backs of our ancestors. Nearly 300 years of terrible oppression can't be wiped out in a few years by the passage of a couple laws. Affirmative Action is an acknowledgement that the damage has not yet been undone.

[Craig]

Originally posted by internet andy@Jun 23 2006, 09:34 AM
I was wondering how people here feel about Politically Correctness.

I'm trying to be nice because you sound like a good guy who doesn't mean any harm. You have questions and are skeptical of what you percieve to be the status quo. Those are good things. There was a time in my life when I asked all those same questions.

I personal think its a bad thing, it hinders freedom of speech. I don't like having to watch what I say around certain people, I'm not a racist or sexist or anything like that.

So what you're saying is that you don't like to behave appropriately for a situation? You'd show up drinking a 40 at a job interview? You like to burp at the table during a formal dinner? Or is it that you just want to tell nigger jokes without having to look around to make sure one isn't nearby?

"Politically Correct" is not a term people usually apply to themselves. It's an insult. It's a shield that rude people hide behind when they want to excuse their own terrible behavior. It's not "politically correct" to avoid laughing at another human's suffering, it's just impolite. If you want to be obnoxious, that's your own decision. Exersize your "freedom of speech." No one is stopping you... But that doesn't mean we have to LIKE you. If you act like an asshole, people will treat you like an asshole.

I'm a white christian male... I never take jokes like that seriously, their just jokes and mean nothing.

Really? The white Christian male isn't bothered by all the white Christian male jokes out there?

Maybe you're not bothered because, as an admitted white Christian male, you've never faced the humiliation that discrimination causes. When I was a kid and I fell down, I'd go crying into the house. "My arm hurts," I'd tell my grandfather. "Funny, I don't feel a thing," was his response. The lesson? We often don't feel the suffering of others.

Also if you look at America and how much anti-PC speech it allows compared to Europe or China, you see there is considerly less racism, sexism, etc. in America compared to those other countries. Since Americans grew up around it, they tend to be disgusted by racists, sexists, etc. While Europeans tend to be slightly more iltorant then others, ex. Most Nazi parties in the world are located in Europe (Yes I know WWII and such, but if PC does work, wouldn't these be all gone?)

That's just not true. The United States had one of the worst forms of institutionalized racism in the world -- racial slavery -- and the effects are still felt today. As for sexism, I would point out that many European nations have already had female prime ministers and presidents, yet that is seen as a virtual impossibility here in the US.

Its just like affermative action in the fact that both promotions a division among people base on their sex and creed. This is what MLK marched for this isn't what he died for.

I don't think that a self-identified anti-affirmative-action white Christian male has the right to speak for Martin Luther King.

You assume, as a sheltered suburban whiteboy, that everyone is trully equal in the US. Therefore affirmative action isn't needed. And if everyone was trully equal then you'd be right.

Here are the facts. This country was built by exploitation of blacks and minorities. For over a century, blacks were considered property. They weren't even allowed to READ. Then, in 1864, they were declared "free." But they didn't have anything. No property, no money... Nothing. They were denied from living in most "white" communities. They weren't allowed into schools. They were denied good jobs. Laws were passed making it almost impossible for them to vote. They couldn't even drink out of the same drinking fountains! This continued up through the goddamn 1950s.

Education and wealth are accumulated through GENERATIONS. We all stand on the backs of our ancestors. Nearly 300 years of terrible oppression can't be wiped out in a few years by the passage of a couple laws. Affirmative Action is an acknowledgement that the damage has not yet been undone.

[Craig]

Originally posted by internet andy@Jun 23 2006, 09:34 AM
I was wondering how people here feel about Politically Correctness.

I'm trying to be nice because you sound like a good guy who doesn't mean any harm. You have questions and are skeptical of what you percieve to be the status quo. Those are good things. There was a time in my life when I asked all those same questions.

I personal think its a bad thing, it hinders freedom of speech. I don't like having to watch what I say around certain people, I'm not a racist or sexist or anything like that.

So what you're saying is that you don't like to behave appropriately for a situation? You'd show up drinking a 40 at a job interview? You like to burp at the table during a formal dinner? Or is it that you just want to tell nigger jokes without having to look around to make sure one isn't nearby?

"Politically Correct" is not a term people usually apply to themselves. It's an insult. It's a shield that rude people hide behind when they want to excuse their own terrible behavior. It's not "politically correct" to avoid laughing at another human's suffering, it's just impolite. If you want to be obnoxious, that's your own decision. Exersize your "freedom of speech." No one is stopping you... But that doesn't mean we have to LIKE you. If you act like an asshole, people will treat you like an asshole.

I'm a white christian male... I never take jokes like that seriously, their just jokes and mean nothing.

Really? The white Christian male isn't bothered by all the white Christian male jokes out there?

Maybe you're not bothered because, as an admitted white Christian male, you've never faced the humiliation that discrimination causes. When I was a kid and I fell down, I'd go crying into the house. "My arm hurts," I'd tell my grandfather. "Funny, I don't feel a thing," was his response. The lesson? We often don't feel the suffering of others.

Also if you look at America and how much anti-PC speech it allows compared to Europe or China, you see there is considerly less racism, sexism, etc. in America compared to those other countries. Since Americans grew up around it, they tend to be disgusted by racists, sexists, etc. While Europeans tend to be slightly more iltorant then others, ex. Most Nazi parties in the world are located in Europe (Yes I know WWII and such, but if PC does work, wouldn't these be all gone?)

That's just not true. The United States had one of the worst forms of institutionalized racism in the world -- racial slavery -- and the effects are still felt today. As for sexism, I would point out that many European nations have already had female prime ministers and presidents, yet that is seen as a virtual impossibility here in the US.

Its just like affermative action in the fact that both promotions a division among people base on their sex and creed. This is what MLK marched for this isn't what he died for.

I don't think that a self-identified anti-affirmative-action white Christian male has the right to speak for Martin Luther King.

You assume, as a sheltered suburban whiteboy, that everyone is trully equal in the US. Therefore affirmative action isn't needed. And if everyone was trully equal then you'd be right.

Here are the facts. This country was built by exploitation of blacks and minorities. For over a century, blacks were considered property. They weren't even allowed to READ. Then, in 1864, they were declared "free." But they didn't have anything. No property, no money... Nothing. They were denied from living in most "white" communities. They weren't allowed into schools. They were denied good jobs. Laws were passed making it almost impossible for them to vote. They couldn't even drink out of the same drinking fountains! This continued up through the goddamn 1950s.

Education and wealth are accumulated through GENERATIONS. We all stand on the backs of our ancestors. Nearly 300 years of terrible oppression can't be wiped out in a few years by the passage of a couple laws. Affirmative Action is an acknowledgement that the damage has not yet been undone.

[apathy maybe]

Political correctness is about not insulting others. It is about inclusive language. If you want to go around insulting people or making generalisations based on sex, gender, skin colour, then go ahead. But if you do not, then you are using correct language.

I have more to say, but I can't remember what it is.

[TC]

Language can sometimes betray discriminatory or traditionalist attitudes, but the problem is the attitudes behind them and the socio-economic system supporting them, and not the language...the language is just *potentially* symptomatic of it.

When people however, use politicized language for the sake of it, perhaps in an effort to shift the discourse to their ideological perspective, they're in no position of accusing people of sexism/racism/homophobia/'queer'phobia whatever, simply because people haven't adopted their particular idiosyncrasy, because neither their language nor their ideology are universial either in general speech or on the left.

And seriously, guys who write 'womyn' and 'wimmin', or even worse, 'persyn' and 'humyn', aren't being political correct they're engaging in a type of socio-political appropriation of identity for ideological purposes.

[VermontLeft]

I don't like having to watch what I say around certain people

too fucking bad.

no, words arent the cause of discriminatoion but they sure can perpetuate it. and if youi allow people to be racist (even "without meaning it") you perpeatuater oppressino and discrimination.

makinng people think about the language they use makes them confront the underlying social values and keeps "innocent" people from unwittingly helpging to keep discriminatory values alive.

thats why "niggerr" shoudlnt be used by any white person any moe. it doesnt matter if youre "not racist" or whatever, the word is and you spread racist culture by using it.

maybe its cause I'm a white christian male

yeah, maybe it is. mayube its cause as a "white christian male" youve probably never faced discrimination in your life and so have no idea what its like.

and, by the way, what does "christian" mean for you? does it mean "hating the fags" like a good christian?

Also if you look at America and how much anti-PC speech it allows compared to Europe or China, you see there is considerly less racism, sexism, etc. in America compared to those other countries

that is one of the stupidest things i have ever read.

the US is so muchb more racist than europe, its not even debatable. there are few places on earth quite as racist as the us.

honestly, dude you have a fucked up image of wht its like to be a minority in this country... :angry:

Its just like affermative action in the fact that both promotions a division among people base on their sex and creed

right, cause if affirmative action were to go away, racistm and sexism in the workplace woudl, what, "disappear"?

social power comes out of economic power and economic power is often tied into race or sex.

the reason that women are discriminated against is cause of their position in "traditional families" which keeps them from real economic activities. its even worse in areas with stronge religious laws like the middle east where women have no economic role and so pretty much no social standing.

these things boost each other though. so less power women have, the less they tedn to work and the less they work the less power they have. and any pressure on either one will directly push the other.

so after the iranian revolution in Iran, womens positions shifted backwards, but because trhey had a history in the workfroce it could never shift as far back as the radicalist would have liked.

in afghanistan, however, women were ina much weaker position to start with so they lost a lot more.

and the same applies for racial minorities. their poverty tends to be generational and so people of certain races end up being born with less economic opportunites and so less social power.

what affirmative action does is push back, by forcing economioc oppportunities it tries to counter the economc/social cycle i just mentioned.

obviousloy its just a liberal solution and so is far from perfect, but its sure as hell better than nothing!